The Learning + Performance Podcast

By: Patrick Healy
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  • Summary

  • The show that explores key ideas, strategies, tools, and techniques for enhancing human learning and performance.
    Patrick Healy
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Personal Development Personal Success
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Episodes
  • #19 - Tom McDowall on Upskilling and Reskilling L&D

    #19 - Tom McDowall on Upskilling and Reskilling L&D
    Apr 15 2025
    In this episode of The Learning and Performance Podcast, I interview Tom McDowall, an experienced learning and development professional and the founder of Evolve Learning Design about the importance of upskilling and reskilling—both for the broader workforce and for L&D teams themselves. We discuss why many traditional models in the field are outdated and no longer serve us and how to skill better. Tom has worked across almost every L&D role—from facilitator to digital designer to head of learning design—and now focuses on helping L&D teams improve how they think, operate, and deliver impact. This conversation is packed with insight and honesty, and I think you’ll walk away with a sharper perspective on how to help people—and yourself—learn and perform better.Key Topics:In the conversation, we hit on a number of interesting topics relevant to learning and performance, including:What performance is and why it depends just as much on systems as it does on peopleWhy L&D often solves the wrong problemsThe difference between capability and opportunity—and how learning only supports oneTom’s journey into L&D and his critique of self-made success narrativesWhat a product mindset looks like in practiceWhy upskilling is uncomfortable—but necessary—and how to support it without overwhelming peopleHow to measure the success of upskilling initiativesPractical strategies for internal L&D teams to do more with lessThe importance of context awareness and system thinkingAnd more.Connect with Tom⁠Evolve ⁠– Tom’s learning consultancy⁠⁠⁠⁠IDTx Conference - Tom's conference for IDersLinkedInYouTubeNotes, Mentions, and Resources:Performance = where capability (internal KSAs) and opportunity (external environmental supports) meetW. Edwards Deming – “A bad system will beat a good person every time.”Learning = cognitive process of knowledge and skill developmentDesigning “learning” vs. designing training and resources for learning to occurSpaced practice, dripped contentInformal learning occurring all the timeThrive – LXP platform Tom worked withColossyan – AI avatar video platform Tom consulted withWhy luck is a big element of careersTaking a “product mindset” in L&D—viewing L&D as a provider of internal productsThomas Gilbert – Human Competence ModelGuy Wallace – Performance-based instructional designGreg Arthur – Learning experience design podcast guestEvolve – Tom’s learning design consultancyThe myth of the learner—people don't necessarily want to learn, value learning, or feel comfortable doing itGoal = more performant employees/professionals, not satisfied learnersUpskilling and reskilling as a form of change managementReskilling as uncomfortable but a kind/human thing to doWEF Jobs Insight Report (2025) – Human-only jobs declining, high churn/mobility, growing demand for physical laborImportance of L&D upskilling itself and practicing what it preachesChallenges of upskilling L&D: budget, assumptions, discomfort, outdated models, resistance to changeAddressing those challenges: be flexible, communicate value, use dataDelivering outcomes > outputsMeasuring upskilling impact: connect skills to KPIs, observe behavior change, avoid self-assessments, explore genAI roleplays, consider environmental variablesCore L&D skills today: resilience, tech elasticity, mental health awarenessThe Learning Network (UK) – Peer-driven L&D communityPixar’s Brain Trust – Honest, iterative creative feedbackBeing nice vs. being kind – Hard truths help people growKim Scott – Radical Candor – Clear, caring feedbackInvesting in contextual intelligence—reading widely and understanding learner environmentsAdam Savage’s principle of first-order retrieval – Reduce friction and increase flowAdam Grant – WorkLife Podcast – Making work betterWhy you shouldn’t always ask older professionals for advice firstGordon Brown – Seven Ways to Change the World – Insight into global systemic changeSTOP Technique – Stop, Take a Breath, Observe, Proceed
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    1 hr and 27 mins
  • #18 - Cathan Kabrelian on Compassionate Communication with Ourselves and Others

    #18 - Cathan Kabrelian on Compassionate Communication with Ourselves and Others
    Mar 19 2025
    In this episode of The Learning and Performance Podcast, I speak with the late Cathan Kabrelian, a leading expert in compassionate communication. Cathan was a trainer, speaker, retreat leader, and mentor, known for integrating compassionate communication into a wide range of fields, from education to corporate environments. Through her work as a trauma-informed Needs-Awareness Trainer, Certified Mindfulness Instructor, and Breath Coach, Cathan brought a unique depth to understanding and teaching not only effective communication skills but the self-awareness skills to transform conversations and relationships at work, at home, and in all those third spaces. Together, Cathan and I discussed why compassionate communication matters and how you can use it to live a more self-aware, wonderful, and connected life.Key TopicsIn the conversation, we hit on a number of interesting topics relevant to learning and performance, including:What is compassionate or non-violent communication, and why is it importantThe importance of feelings and needs awareness to life and relationshipsThe OFNR framework of observation, feelings, needs, requestsHow to translate thoughts and judgments into needsFeelings as a “radar” for detecting what we needShifting from blaming others to identifying our own values and needsWhy self-connection is necessary to connect with othersThree ways to navigate challenging feelingsTwo ways to practice compassionate communication - formal and real-lifeUsing compassionate communication at workAnd much more...Learn More About Cathan and NVCCathan's websiteIn Loving MemoryNVC by Marshall RosenbergNew York Center for NVCThe Compassion Course by Thom Bond and teamNotes,Mentions, and ResourcesIdentity - not just WHO we are or WHAT we do or believe but HOW we arePerformance - achieving tasks towards a goal with creativity, skill, and compassionate consideration of needsLearning - understanding something better than we did beforeLearning-Performance "Loops" - Learn, Practice, Perform.Compassionate/Non-Violent Communication (NVC)Needs awarenessNon-Violent Communication (NVC) by Marshall RosenbergOFNR Framework - Observations, Feelings, Needs, RequestsObservations - what we notice about ourselves, others, and the worldFeelings - sensations stimulated by met or unmet needsNeeds - universal life impulses; drivers of actionsRequests/Strategies - ways to meet our needsCompassion Course OnlineThe Compassion Book by Thom BondNY Center for NVC (NYCNVC)Effective practice is intentional, focused, awareTranslating Judgments Practice - translating judgments into feelings and needs/valuesShifting from judgment and blaming to connection, curiosity, and compassionPrinciple - everything we do we do to meet a need or valueFeelings as "radar" for needs, not something to fear or push awayApplying NVC at work - values and what matters>needs; focusing on individual self-connection leads to more curiosity, compassion, and connection with co-workersIt doesn't take two to change a conversation, only oneDealing with difficult feelings by connecting to met/unmet needs - (1) notice judgments/resistance/thinking, (2) tune into body sensations, (3) identify what you want/need and embody it, (4) think of a strategy to meet the needsFeelings and Needs listStudy by Brene Brown on average number of feelings of AmericansSelf-connect first to connect with others secondTwo types of practice for showing up better - formal and integrative/IRLCathan's website - Compassionate Thriving Types of Judgments - Value judgments, preferences, assessments vs. moralistic judgmentsHigh performance in life = showing up authentically and connecting with othersMindfulnessSomatic experiencing and breathworkCompassion vs. empathy
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    1 hr and 24 mins
  • #17 - Alaina Szlachta on Harnessing Data To Improve Learning and Performance

    #17 - Alaina Szlachta on Harnessing Data To Improve Learning and Performance
    Feb 20 2025
    In this episode of The Learning and Performance Podcast, I speak with Dr. Alaina Szlachta, an education entrepreneur and data and measurement "nerd," about leveraging data to improve workplace learning and performance. Alaina is the founder and Chief Measurement Architect at By Design Development Solutions, a consultancy that works with leaders and teams to create simple data collection systems that enable their programs to facilitate real, evidence-based impact and change. Together, Alaina and I discuss why measurement, assessment, evaluation, and data are so critical to learning and performance improvement, and she shares some great insights and tools for measuring and understanding the true impact of your learning and performance efforts.Key TopicsIn our conversation, we hit on a number of interesting topics relevant to learning and performance, including:The importance of collecting and utilizing data (and why data is power)Evaluation, measurement - what they are and why they matterThe criticality of having feedback loops in teaching and learningThe similarities and differences between measurement, evaluation, and assessmentWhy analysis and evaluation are so often overlookedThe difference between analyzing and addressing performance gaps vs. designing learning solutionsSome challenges with measuring the impact of training and other interventions, and how to overcome themHow to artfully navigate questionable training requestsHow to evaluate intangible skills in highly tangible waysAnd a whole lot more!Connect with AlainaAlaina's websiteLinkedIn Measurement Made Easy groupMeasurement and Evaluation on a Shoestring⁠⁠⁠Mentions and Resources:Learning 2024 ConferenceDr. Megan Torrance - Why data is powerThe data pyramid and how wisdom requires dataPerformance - a combo of attitudes and actions, beliefs and behaviors that show up in how we workLearning - a means to an end at work, NOT the end resultThe importance of evaluating performance changes, not just assessing learning!Importance of constant feedback loops in teaching and learning and the lack of feedback loop in much workplace learning and performance improvementTelling Ain't TrainingDefinition of measurement - strategic planning to collect data and collecting itDefinition of evaluation - analyzing the data and determining effectivenessImportance of measurement and evaluation to decision-makingThe ADDIE Framework - so easy to neglect/overlook A and EAnalyzing and addressing performance gaps vs. designing and delivering learning solutionsThe Pareto Principle - 20 percent of content providing 80 percent of valueWhy evaluation is overlooked - (1) lack of time, money, and people to do a comprehensive evaluation, (2) focusing on superficial aspects of learning experiences, (3) not clearly identifying the important things to valueKirkpatrick's Four Levels of EvaluationAssessment vs. Evaluation - assessments collect data on learning, and evaluations determine changes in performanceChallenges with measuring impact - (1) building a training or learning solution without validating the problem is a lack of knowledge, (2) not digging into the data closelyMeasurement and Evaluation on a Shoestring (ATD Press 2025)Getting out of the shoestring by being strategicAligning L&D resources with core business/organizational metricsHeidi Kirby - Useful StuffImportance of listening to your gut when sensing red flags with requestsHow to sidestep training requests with strategic questions about the problemEvaluating the "intangibles" - (1) Translate intangible skills into tangible behaviors and indicators. (2) Tie it back to the problem. What would be different if the person was better at this? If they did it, would it solve the problem?Importance of using tech to automate other things and free up time for better analysis and evaluationBeing clear on key indicators/criteria before making professional decision (e.g., finding a job, taking on a client)
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    1 hr and 8 mins
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