In this episode, Howard Ross draws on four decades of DEI experience to offer wisdom in today's polarized climate. Howard, who brought me into the DEI field years ago, discusses how today's backlash fits into historical patterns and provides strategic guidance for practitioners navigating political headwinds.

Key Discussion Points:

- The shift from a "bell curve society" to a "dumbbell curve society"

- Distinguishing between performative, symbolic, and transformational DEI work

- Why activism and organizational change require different skillsets

- Strategic approaches to continuing inclusion work in challenging environments

- Finding hope in historical patterns of social progress

- Seeing humanity across political divides

🔥 Standout Quote:

"We've gone from a Bell curve society where most people are kind of in the middle... to a dumbbell curve society where everything's on the end and nothing's in the middle. And the notion of working with somebody across the aisle is considered pretty much by both sides to be betrayal." - Howard Ross

About Our Guest:

Howard Ross is a lifelong social justice advocate and pioneer in the field of DEI work. As founder of Cook Ross and author of influential books including "Everyday Bias," "ReInventing Diversity," and "Our Search for Belonging," Howard has consulted with hundreds of organizations worldwide. At 74, he describes himself as "rewired not retired" and continues to be an influential voice in the field. Howard is currently working on a third edition of "Everyday Bias" with his son Jake, focusing on how AI and social media are influenced by bias.

Resources Mentioned:

Everyday Bias by Howard Ross

IDEAS Generation - An organization for younger DEI practitioners co-founded by Dan Egol, a former Cook Ross employee.

The Fire Next Time by James Baldwin - Mentioned by Howard as a transformative book that changed his worldview when he read it in 1966.

Time Stamps:

[00:04:00] - Howard's background in civil rights work and how his family's Holocaust experience shaped him

[00:08:30] - The concept of "dumbbell curve society" and its impact on DEI work

[00:11:45] - The dual nature of DEI backlash: legitimate critique and politically motivated attacks

[00:13:50] - The three levels of DEI work: cosmetic, performative, and symbolic

[00:15:30] - The critical difference between activism and organizational change

[00:33:00] - Thinking strategically versus emotionally about DEI work

[00:39:00] - Finding hope in the historical patterns of progress and retrenchment

[00:44:00] - The importance of seeing humanity in those with different political views

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In this episode, host Amri Johnson challenges us to examine how we put ourselves and others into boxes—especially in the context of identity and inclusion within DEI work. Amri explores the shortcomings of both extreme pro-DEI and anti-DEI positions, revealing how both ends of the spectrum ultimately restrict true inclusion.

Key Discussion Points:

- Three types of boxes that shape our identities

- Why binary thinking in DEI work leads to ineffective outcomes

- The "anti-racist" versus "not racist" framework

- How today's anti-DEI backlash mirrors the problematic dynamics of extreme DEI approaches from 2020

- Creating organizational cultures based on universal principles like dignity, respect, and interdependence

- Why intellectual honesty matters more than superficial niceness

🔥 Standout Quotes:

"Many home runs in the DEI space, in the anti-racist space, in the social justice space that were hit since 2020 did not win games. In fact, they're creating the opposite effect where others are trying to win a similar game in a very different direction."

Resources Mentioned:

- Reconstructing Inclusion S1E6: What is Race Abolition?: Illuminating Racialization’s Complexity with Dr. Subrena Smith and Dr. David Livingstone Smith

"Stamped: Racism, Antiracism, and You" - Book co-authored by Jason Reynolds and Ibram X. Kendi that explores the history of racist ideas in America.

Peter Senge's Definition of Leadership - "Leadership is the capacity for a human community to shape its future."

Join our free EMERGENT Inclusion Framework virtual event. This isn't another discussion about group identities, allyship, and injustice. While those things have their place, the focus on symptoms rather than diving into the complexity of systems have not unlocked organizational value as practitioners and supporters have hoped for them to. Whether you're a skeptic or champion, your voice matters in this conversation.

Time Stamps:

01:00 - The concept of boxes in identity and inclusion

02:00 - The three types of boxes that define our identity

04:00 - How the dynamics between DEI proponents and opponents mirror each other

06:30 - The baseball analogy: anti-racist vs. not racist

08:30 - Strategic approaches to inclusion vs. binary thinking

10:50 - The current political climate and its impact on DEI

13:30 - Self-censoring across different contexts

15:00 - Creating organizational culture beyond superficial niceness

17:10 - The danger of overcorrection in DEI discourse

18:00 - Final reflections on transcending boxes

➡️ Subscribe to Reconstructing Inclusion for more unfiltered conversations about the future of DEI.

In this episode, Fred Falker challenges everything we think we know about DEI. Using the famous nine-dot puzzle as a metaphor, Fred explains why our current approach to inclusion might be holding us back – and offers a revolutionary new way forward.

Key Discussion Points:

- The nine-dot puzzle and invisible limitations

- Difference vs. Distance paradigm

- Why nature doesn't draw lines?

- The problem with current DEI approaches

- Moving beyond categories to connection

- Measuring real impact in DEI work

🔥 Standout Quote:

"The drawing of the line is what divides. And when we divide, it brings in appraisal and judgment. It brings in the idea that something could be less than or more than. All of our bias is created by drawing lines." - Fred

About Our Guest:

Fred Falker is the President of Falker Consulting Group, Inc., an organizational development consulting and training firm. Over the past twenty-five years, he has developed and introduced a fundamentally new and better approach to diversity, equity, and inclusion. This approach goes beyond today's anti-racism and unconscious/implicit bias training.

Resources Mentioned:

- Falker Consulting Group

- From Difference to Distance: Rethinking Diversity and Inclusion | Fred Falker | TEDxClayton

- Ralph Ellison's "Invisible Man"

- Dr. Robert L. Williams - Founder of Black Psychology

Time Stamps:

[00:01:00] - Introduction to Fred Falker and his unique perspective on DEI

[00:07:00] - Why Fred initially refused to do diversity training [00:15:00] - The fundamental flaw in how we think about differences

[00:19:00] - "Nature does not draw lines" – Understanding constructed divisions

[00:34:00] - Why understanding groups doesn't mean understanding individuals

[00:37:00] - The distance paradigm: What really separates us? [00:49:00] - Why we need to focus on outcomes, not activities?[00:54:00] - The importance of abandoning old paradigms completely

➡️ Subscribe to Reconstructing Inclusion for more unfiltered conversations about the future of DEI.