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New Kinship

New Kinship

By: David Frank and TJ Espinoza
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 Welcome to New Kinship, where we are exploring and renewing ideas of belonging, desire, and being a neighbor in the Kingdom of Jesus. Together we are pursuing the communion and shalom of the church and the world. Pull up a chair and join the conversation!

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Episodes
  • BONUS - David, Andrew & Cathie's reflections of Oriented to Love

    BONUS - David, Andrew & Cathie's reflections of Oriented to Love
    Jul 3 2025

    After hearing about TJ’s previous experience at OTL (Oriented to Love), I, David, felt prompted to fly to the city of brotherly love and experience this dialogue retreat himself. God did more than I could have asked for or imagined in this sacred weekend in conversation with other Christians from diverse perspectives and backgrounds, with purposeful differences across the Side A (progressive views on faith and sexuality) and Side B (historic views on faith and sexuality) divide.

    I was joined by two other friends from the retreat, Andrew Gordon and Cathie McCoy, who also share Side B perspectives, to share about their meaningful experiences connecting on deep topics of the heart. In order to bring out the most organic of connections, we were led through an intentionally structured 44 hours together in spiritual exercises and vulnerable dialogue.

    —

    ★ Timestamps

    (00:00) Introduction to the Bonus Episode

    (02:35) Meet the Guests: Andrew and Cathie

    (07:27) Preparing for the Dialogue

    (11:56) Anticipations and Expectations

    (17:09) The OTL Experience: Setting the Stage

    (21:54) Engaging in Dialogue Across Differences in Theology

    (32:31) The Power of Authentic Connections in Moments of Vulnerability

    (35:12) Navigating Theological and Ethical Differences in Safe and Humble Spaces

    (39:30) The Role of the Holy Spirit in Personal Growth

    (44:52) Balancing Individuality and Community

    (01:00:13) The Importance of Vulnerability and Being Seen

    (01:06:54) Final Thoughts and Recommendations

    —

    ★ Links and References

    * “Oriented to Love”: https://christiansforsocialaction.org/programs/oriented-to-love/



    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit newkinship.substack.com
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    1 hr and 10 mins
  • #65 - Is There a Side B in Japan? Aogu Fujihashi, Kaz Okaya on LGBTQ & Church | LGBTQ+と教会：「サイドB」は日本にもあるのか—藤橋仰＆岡谷和作との対話

    #65 - Is There a Side B in Japan? Aogu Fujihashi, Kaz Okaya on LGBTQ & Church | LGBTQ+と教会：「サイドB」は日本にもあるのか—藤橋仰＆岡谷和作との対話
    Jun 25 2025
    In conversations around Christian faith and sexuality, especially in the U.S., it can feel like everyone’s expected to pick a “side.” But it’s not the same—or at least the same lines being drawn—in other places.In this episode, we talked with Aogu Fujihashi and Kaz Okaya about their experiences in the Japanese Christian context, where the conversation around LGBTQ+ identity looks a bit different. We talk about how a culture of conformity impacts same-sex marriage ideas in Japan, how American evangelicals influence Japanese churches, and the quiet struggles many queer Christians face in some church communities. Join us for a thoughtful look at what gets lost—or gained—in translation, on faith and sexuality, in Japan.—Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠—About Our GuestsAogu Fujihashi is a gay Japanese Christian who served on staff with YWAM from 2020 to 2025, after volunteering with them in the 2011 tsunami relief efforts. He focuses on helping the Japanese church have healthier conversations about LGBTQ+ issues. Aogu helped edit the Japanese translation of Two Views on Homosexuality and wrote the foreword for Wesley Hill’s Washed and Waiting. He’s passionate about creating spaces where people can experience God’s love and live whole lives. He can be found on Instagram at @aogufuji.Kazusa Okaya is a straight Japanese Christian, translator, and PhD student at Durham University. He translated Washed and Waiting and Andrew Marin’s Love Is an Orientation into Japanese and contributed to Two Views on Homosexuality. Kaz formerly served as an IFES (International Fellowship of Evangelical Students) staff worker in Japan (KGK - “Kirisutosha Gakusei Kai", which means “Fellowship of Christian Students”). As a former staff pastor in student ministry, Kaz has been a thoughtful voice in ongoing conversations about faith and sexuality in the Japanese church. He participates in conversations on faith and sexuality at Dream Party dialogue.—★ Timestamps(00:00) #65 - Aogu Fujihashi and Kaz Okaya, Japanese Christians on Faith and Sexuality Convos (06:09) When the Japanese Christian bookstore has zero books on LGBTQ (17:31) Challenges of translating: "Christians who wish to be faithful..." (31:20) "Japan is the only G7 country that hasn't legalized same-sex marriage" (41:26) What is an "evangelical" in Japan? (44:21) How do Christians talk about being gay in Japan? Borrow US categories? (57:17) Japanese Christians "coming out", but rarely to a pastor (01:00:43) Kinship beyond marriage in Japan... is mainly outside the church (gang brotherhoods?) (01:08:16) We hope to keep dialogue open between progressive/conservative Christians (01:13:12) Who do we choose to dialogue with? When does it cause harm?—★ Links and ReferencesThe Bible study for LGBTQ+ and same-sex attracted people that Aogu facilitates meets every other week in Shinjuku, Tokyo. Follow on Instagram: @shinjukubaisutaAogu Fujihashi has an occasionally updated blog at https://aogufujihashi.wordpress.com/Kaz has an article in Christianity Today: Japanese Evangelicalism Was Once Nationalistic (May 2025)—★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support!Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship | Patreon: @newkinship This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit newkinship.substack.com
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    1 hr and 26 mins
  • #64 – Grace Thomas: From Pentecostal Pastor to Trans Woman

    #64 – Grace Thomas: From Pentecostal Pastor to Trans Woman
    Jun 4 2025
    Grace Thomas came out as a transgender woman at age 61—after decades of life as a pastor, husband, and father. That alone makes her story remarkable. But what’s even more compelling is the way she tells it: with gentleness, honesty, and deep care for the people in her life.In this episode, Grace shares how her transition has shaped her relationships with her children and her wife, what it’s been like to remain in conversation with those who don’t fully understand or affirm her, and how her reading of Scripture has changed her approach to parenting, church, and more.We’re particularly grateful for the gracious and curious way that Grace approaches all her conversations, and we hope you’ll join us to learn from her, no matter where you land on these topics.About Our GuestGrace is a committed follower of Jesus with a call to ministry. She is also a trans woman out publicly for 3 ½ years. During her 32 years as a pastor in a conservative denomination, her two youngest children came out as gay. Deeply committed to loving her sons and following Jesus, she began a long journey of rethinking faith and what it means to fully love others, especially her children and herself. Grace supports parents of LGBTQ kids through various support groups as well as pursuing community and inclusion for LGBTQ individuals in the church. You can contact her at graceisforyoualways@gmail.comNote: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠—★ Timestamps(00:00) #64 - Grace Thomas: From Pentecostal Pastor to Trans Woman(03:39) I only knew to say: "Being gay is sin."(10:40) Coming out to myself as transgender: "I don't know" is cruel(25:15) The wrong wedding clothes: How does it hang on the law of love?(33:29) "Parents know if they're giving a child a fish or a rock"(47:02) Holiness: I don't see God as "untouchable"(58:26) A trans experience: Psalm 139(01:10:58) A trans experience: The car parts store(01:15:25) A trans experience: Passing as female(01:18:38) No one can stop me from loving my neighbor—★ Links and ReferencesCheck out a few other episodes we mentioned in this conversation:* #32 - TJ Participated in an “Oriented to Love” Dialogue--Here Are His Thoughts* #33 - Asking Better Questions with Oriented to Love’s Kristyn Komarnicki* #11 - Fractures in Our Moral Foundation | Applying Haidt to Sexual Ethic Divides—★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support!Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship | Patreon: @newkinship—★ CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin Popken, gavinpopkenart.com ★ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit newkinship.substack.com
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    1 hr and 28 mins
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