In this episode, researcher and Loose Threads co-author Daniel Elizondo joins us for a far-reaching conversation about UFO secrecy, the architecture of disinformation, and the psychological terrain of the phenomenon itself.

We dig into Jacques Vallée’s “Secret Onion”—a layered model of compartmentalization that explains how information is controlled and obscured within intelligence structures—and explore how narrative control operates both externally through infotainment and internally through belief, seduction, and epistemic vulnerability.

Daniel breaks down the long history of rug pulls, the weaponization of mystery, and what it means to resist the gravitational pull of being “the one” to break the story. We also talk Forbidden Science, Skywatcher, and the invisible handshake between researchers and the phenomenon they seek to understand.

If you’ve ever wondered who controls the narrative—or if you’re part of it—this episode is for you.

📚 Resources and References

• Loose Threads by Daniel Elizondo and the Hermetic Penetrator
• Forbidden Science 6: Scattered Castles by Jacques Vallée
• UFOs: Past, Present, and Future by Robert Emenegger

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TIMESTAMPS
02:24 Sky Watcher and UFO Community Skepticism
08:48 Historical Precedents in UFO Disclosure
10:30 The Holloman Air Force Base Incident
14:35 Challenges in UFO Disclosure and Infotainment
21:45 Personal Experiences and Intelligence Community Interactions
30:58 Navigating the Insider's Club and Forbidden Science
33:08 The Repeated Revelations of Jacques Vallee
35:25 The Evolution of the Invisible College
39:57 The Secret Onion: Layers of Secrecy
49:46 The Phenomenon and Human Curiosity
56:57 The Control Mechanism: Micro and Macro Perspectives
01:01:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Fresh from the Archives of the Impossible conference at Rice University, Kelly and Jay sit down to unpack one of the most talked-about moments of the weekend—a provocative presentation by Dr. Garry Nolan on his involvement with the Skywatcher initiative.

Skywatcher is an emerging public-facing effort claiming to demonstrate CE5-style contact, utilize psionic assets, with the aim of potentially reverse-engineering non-human technologies. The implications are enormous—and so are the questions.

In this wide-ranging, deeply reflective conversation, Kelly and Jay explore:

• The strange and rapid emergence of Skywatcher and the implications for the disclosure movement
• The increasingly blurred lines between whistleblower testimony, media spectacle, and operational theater
• The question of who’s leading the charge into direct contact with non-human intelligences—and why
• The need to balance the objectives of science and venture capital against humanitarian, ethical, and philosophical questions in our quest for contact—and why that will almost certainly not happen.
• The potential cost of accelerating contact without asking the deeper metaphysical, spiritual, and cultural questions

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
https://www.cosmosis.media/

Join the Patreon:
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Subscribe to Cosmosis:
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Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107

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Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:

Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ

Apple Music:

https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117

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TIMESTAMPS

02:18 Exploring Sky Watcher's Initiatives
03:38 Jake Barber's Revelations
05:22 CE-5 and Public Disclosure
07:16 Community Reactions and Ethical Questions
15:39 Garry Nolan's Scientific Perspective
20:56 Technological Worldview and Ethical Implications
30:03 Heidegger's Philosophy and Technology
39:20 The Value of Human Life in a Technological Age
40:17 The Ethical Implications of Technological Intelligence
43:55 The Concept of Hyper Objects and UFO Phenomena
45:54 The Great Filter and Technological Surveillance
47:52 The Role of Experience in Understanding Phenomena
51:19 The Spectacle and Mediated Reality
56:09 Dwelling vs. Dominating: A Philosophical Approach To Contact
01:05:31 The Importance of Bracketing in Phenomenology
01:07:57 Balancing Speed and Methodology in Disclosure
01:11:00 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions