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The divide between network engineers and developers has long been a source of frustration, misunderstanding, and blame in the tech world. When applications fail, the classic refrain "it's the network" often echoes through organizations, leaving network engineers scrambling to prove their innocence while developers remain convinced of their code's perfection.

In this enlightening conversation, former Cisco developer advocate Erika Dietrick joins hosts Andy Lapteff and Jeff Clark to unpack the root causes of this technological rift. Erika offers a rare dual perspective, having worked both as a software engineer and in Cisco's Technical Assistance Center (TAC). She explains how educational paths create fundamentally different mindsets: "Developers learn to code, period. We do not learn how our computer works. We do not learn how the network works."

Andy shares his personal struggles with learning automation, admitting to starting and quitting "every Python class on planet Earth." This prompts Erika's most valuable insight – that learning to "think like a developer" matters more than syntax or commands. The conversation explores how network engineers often find themselves drowning in daily operational tasks while being expected to add coding skills "for no more money," creating resistance to automation despite its potential benefits.

The discussion takes unexpected turns through topics like cultural differences between teams, the challenges of breaking technical silos, and how AI might actually help bridge these gaps without replacing human expertise. Erika outlines her upcoming free course designed specifically for network engineers learning to code with AI – addressing the exact educational gap that has frustrated network professionals for years.

Whether you identify more with Andy's automation struggles or Jeff's enthusiasm for Python scripting, this episode offers practical perspectives on healing the developer-networker divide.

Subscribe to our podcast for more conversations that tackle the human side of technology and join our Discord community at linktr.ee/artofneteng.

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Network engineers have traditionally drawn a line between "our tools" and "developer tools," often rejecting powerful solutions that could dramatically improve our workflows. But what if we thought about tools the same way tradespeople do? A plumber wouldn't refuse to use a hammer just because it's "for carpenters" – so why do we resist Git?

In this eye-opening discussion, we explore how Git – the version control system created by Linux founder Linus Torvalds – can transform how network teams manage configurations, collaborate on changes, and maintain system history. Far from being "just for developers," Git provides elegant solutions to problems network engineers face daily.

Think about how many times you've emailed configuration files with names like "config_v2_final_REALLY_FINAL.txt" to your team, trying to track which version is current. As our guest William Collins puts it, "If you're versioning in the file name, you've already lost." Git eliminates this chaos by providing a structured approach to tracking changes that's actually remarkably similar to how routing protocols work – distributed nodes maintaining a consistent state through carefully managed updates.

We break down the differences between Git (the technology) and platforms like GitHub (commercial services built on Git), demonstrate how branching and pull requests can formalize peer review of network changes, and show why you don't need to understand every Git command to start benefiting from it today. Whether you're backing up configurations, collaborating on documentation, or building automation workflows, Git provides the structure and accountability that network operations desperately need.

Ready to stop emailing configurations and embrace a better way? Listen now to discover why Git isn't just for developers – it's for anyone who wants to work smarter.

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Have you ever felt like your networking knowledge stops at layer three? You're not alone. In this eye-opening episode, we dive deep into the world of firewalls with security experts Jeff Clark and Matt Lushner, exploring why these critical devices are no longer just "edge protection" but have evolved into sophisticated security platforms that every network engineer should understand.

From simple port filtering to next-generation capabilities like deep packet inspection and application awareness, we unpack how modern firewalls have transformed network security. Matt and Jeff expertly guide us through complex concepts like zero trust architecture, explaining how firewalls now integrate with active directory, endpoint protection, and threat intelligence to create comprehensive security ecosystems.

Ever wondered what a DMZ actually does? Or how firewalls can inspect encrypted traffic? We tackle these questions and more, making security concepts accessible for network professionals looking to expand their skillset. The conversation reveals why network engineers are uniquely positioned to excel in firewall management – your understanding of traffic flows and routing gives you a head start in the security world.

The traditional boundaries between networking and security are blurring, with firewalls now replacing routers in many environments and security considerations becoming embedded throughout the network rather than just at the perimeter. Whether you're curious about career progression into security or just want to better understand how your network's protections function, this episode provides the perfect introduction to the fascinating intersection of networking and security.

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Network automation remains one of the most polarizing topics in our industry. Despite years of being told it will revolutionize our work, actual adoption rates hover around a dismal 20-30%. Why the resistance? And is there finally a path forward that makes sense for everyday network engineers?

In this candid conversation with Jeff Clark and Colin Doyle, we dive deep into the psychological and practical barriers that keep most engineers firmly rooted in traditional networking practices. Jeff shares how his "selfish automation" approach transformed a tedious 15-minute ticket process into a 30-second task, while Colin explores how modern intent-based networking is fundamentally changing what network automation means.

The truth emerges that resistance isn't just about technical challenges—it's about cognitive biases like loss aversion and fear of job displacement. We confront the paradox that many engineers chose networking specifically to avoid coding, only to find programming skills becoming increasingly essential for career advancement.

What makes this conversation different is our focus on practical, accessible starting points rather than theoretical ideals. You'll learn why small, personal projects that solve your immediate problems are the gateway to building automation skills, and how communities of practice can provide the support and accountability needed to progress.

Whether you're automation-curious or automation-resistant, this episode offers a refreshing perspective on how to approach this inevitable shift in our field. The future of networking isn't about replacing engineers with code—it's about freeing engineers to focus on what matters most.

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With the rise of artificial intelligence and its significant demands on network performance, experts are increasingly asking whether Ethernet can catch up to InfiniBand as the preferred choice for high-performance computing.

Join us as industry veterans Mike Bushong and Dr. Jay Metz share their insights on the necessity of open, flexible, and scalable networking solutions. Discover why many believe that Ethernet could be the platform of choice moving forward. As they dissect the need for innovation, collaboration, and competition within the ecosystem, our guests provide a forward-looking perspective on the future of network engineering.

This engaging discussion ultimately encourages listeners to rethink their understanding of Ethernet's potential, examining the increased complexity required to meet the evolving demands of modern computational tasks like AI and HPC.

For more details about what the work UEC is doing, go to https://ultraethernet.org/

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The (PA)NUG podcast panel of William Collins, Andy Lapteff, Ned Bellavance, and Drew Conry-Murray highlights the evolving landscape of network engineering, focusing on the essential skills required for future success, including automation and cloud technologies. Panelists emphasize the importance of foundational networking knowledge, mentorship, and the integration of security into network design, while also addressing the challenges and opportunities presented by technological advancements.

• Exploration of the changing network engineering landscape
• Emphasis on the importance of automation and scripting skills
• Discussion on retaining fundamental knowledge in networking
• Insights on securing networks within cloud infrastructure
• Importance of mentorship and continuous learning
• Perspectives on the future of AI in network engineering

Join the (US)NUA today:
https://www.usnua.com/membership

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This episode explores the theme of change, drawing on personal anecdotes from the hosts as they navigate transitions in their careers and lives. The discussion highlights the importance of embracing change and automation in the ever-evolving tech industry, fostering resilience, and nurturing community connections.

• Reflections on personal experiences of change
• The evolution of the podcast amidst transitions
• Importance of automation in today’s networking landscape
• Navigating the emotional impacts of career changes
• Suggestions for leveraging community for support and growth
• Embracing vulnerability and creativity in facing fears

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This episode discusses the complexities of VXLAN and EVPN in modern networking, highlighting the transition from traditional layer 2 designs to more efficient layer 3 systems. With insights from expert Aninda Chaterjee, listeners learn the importance of understanding underlying technologies for effective network management.

• Personal experiences with home lab setups and troubleshooting
• Explanation of VXLAN as a data plane encapsulation method
• Challenges faced in traditional data center architectures
• Transitioning from layer 2 to layer 3 using leaf and spine architectures
• How EVPN enhances VXLAN functionality by managing MAC addresses
• Importance of understanding technology for effective troubleshooting
• Aninda’s insights on becoming a technical author in the networking field

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