In this special episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Claude Goldenberg, Ph.D., professor of education at Stanford University, to answer questions from our listener mailbag. Together they address a wide range of topics facing today’s educators, such as what to do when your school implements conflicting materials, how to support students that are two or three grades levels behind, best practices for teaching multilingual learners, and more!

Show notes:

• Connect with Claude Goldenberg:
  • Substack: https://claudegoldenberg.substack.com/
• Resources
  • Literacy Foundations for English Learners, A Comprehensive Guide to Evidence-Based Instruction by Elsa Cárdenas-Hagan, Ed.D.
• Join our community Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/scienceofreading
• Connect with Susan Lambert: www.linkedin.com/in/susan-lambert-b1512761/
• Have a burning question? Submit at amplify.com/sormailbag

Quotes:

“Incrementalism is just not going to serve our purpose unless you want to keep things as they are. And I hate to say this, Susan…some people wouldn't mind leaving things as they are. And we can't do that, and we can't do it incrementally. We've got to really move, like last year.” —Claude Goldenberg

“You’ve got to understand how [two programs] fit together and what the purpose is. Giving teachers materials that are literally incoherent and don't fit with each other is not the answer.” —Claude Goldenberg

“We need to have a system ... using the best knowledge that we have systematically throughout the state, throughout the country, with systems that pick up kids who are at risk and don't let them fail.” —Claude Goldenberg

Episode timestamps*
02:00 The latest from Claude Goldenberg
04:00 Literacy and the urgency of now
7:00 Question 1: What about the pendulum swing?
15:00 Question 2: What to do when your school implements conflicting materials?
21:00 Question 3: Why are running records and leveled texts discouraged?
22:00 Decoding v.s. Word recognition
29:00 Question 4: How do we support kids that are two or three grade levels behind?
30:00 Dyslexia and the importance of universal screening
35:00 Question 5: How would you increase reading proficiency in a school in which nearly every student is a multilingual learner?
45:00 Question 6: How do you apply the science of reading to an ELL student in middle school that doesn’t yet know the language?
48:00 Question 7: Is it best practice for bilingual students who are being taught to decode and encode in English and Spanish to be screened in English and Spanish?
*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Young-Suk Grace Kim, a professor at University of California at Irvine's School of Education. Dr. Kim begins by defining a theoretical model, outlining its value to teachers as it pertains to literacy instruction. She describes her own interactive dynamic literacy (IDL) model, which seeks to more fully explain reading and writing connections. Dr. Kim emphasizes how reading and writing function as a powerful and closely related system, and examines how this system interacts with developmental phases, linguistic grain size, and reading and writing difficulties, including dyslexia. After navigating the complexities of this conversation, Susan ends the episode by sharing her unique insights and takeaways from her time with Dr. Kim.

Show notes:

• Connect with Young-Suk Grace Kim:
  • X: @YoungSukKim19
• Resources
  • Read: Enhancing Reading and Writing Skills through Systematically Integrated Instruction
  • Read: Reading and Writing Relations Are Not Uniform: They Differ by the Linguistic Grain Size, Developmental Phase, and Measurement
• Join our community Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/scienceofreading
• Connect with Susan Lambert: www.linkedin.com/in/susan-lambert-b1512761/
• Want to hear more of Dr. Kim? Join us for our upcoming Spring Science of Reading Summit where she’ll be giving the keynote address on the relationship between reading, writing, and language. Save your spot: amplify.com/springsorsummit

Quotes:

“Lower order skills are necessary for higher order skills; that means skills and knowledge have a series of causal effects. So if you flip it the other way, any challenges or weaknesses in lower order skills, it's going to have a series of impacts on higher order skills.” —Young-Suk Grace Kim, Ed.D.

“Theory is an explanation about how things work. …It's a structured framework, a mental framework, that helps us explain, and predict, and understand phenomena.” —Young-Suk Grace Kim, Ed.D.

“If an educator goes to a professional development and learns about something like phoneme awareness…but you don't have a framework in which to attach it, you can sort of go down a rabbit trail on one thing instead of thinking about how it relates to the whole.” —Susan Lambert

Episode timestamps*
03:00 Introduction: Who is Young-Suk Grace Kim?
05:00: Defining a theoretical model
07:00 Origins of Young-Suk’s model
08:00 Interactive Dynamic Literacy Model Overview
14:00 Why interactive and why dynamic
15:00 Hierarchical relations between low order skills and high order skills
18:00 Breaking down “Interactive”
19:00 Young-Suk’s ideal classroom
20:00 Breaking down “Dynamic”
21:00 Linguistic grain size
22:00 Why linguistic grain size matters for teachers
26:00 Why word reading and spelling are more strongly related than reading comprehension and writing composition
29:00 Dynamic relationship of developmental phases
30:00 Measuring reading and writing
33:00 Interactive Dynamic Literacy Model summarized
35:00 Understanding reading and writing difficulty, including dyslexia
42:00 Dr. Kim’s Final Thoughts
44:00 Susan’s takeaways from the conversation
*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Adrea Truckenmiller, Ph.D., associate professor of special education and school psychology at Michigan State University. Their conversation starts with defining academic language and breaking it down on the level of the word, the sentence, and full text. Adrea then touches on topics such as informational vs. narrative text structure, morphological complexity, and effective writing assessment. She also gives advice on how to implement explicit instruction on informational text and academic language, and details a few examples of what it can look like in the classroom. Adrea ends by discussing her passion for special education and encouraging educators to get involved.

Show notes:

• Resources
  • Read: “Academic language use in middle school informational writing”
  • Read: “Academic language and the challenge of reading for learning about science”
  • Read: “Writing to read: Parallel and independent contributions of writing research to the Science of Reading”
  • Read: “What is important to measure in sentence-level language comprehension?
  • Read: Making the Writing Process Work: Strategies for Composition and Self-Regulation
• Join our Facebook community group: www.facebook.com/groups/scienceofreading.
• Connect with Susan Lambert: www.linkedin.com/in/susan-lambert-b1512761/.

Quotes:

“ Academic language is really a new language for everyone to learn.” —Adrea Truckenmiller, Ph.D.

"When we're thinking about teaching academic vocabulary, it's not just one time around. Sometimes we have to layer that instruction for deeper and deeper and deeper meaning.” —Susan Lambert

Episode timestamps*
02:00 Introduction: Who is Adrea Truckenmiller?
07:00 Defining academic language
11:00 Differences in academic language at different levels: word, sentence, text.
12:00 Word level: morphological complexity
17:00 Sentence level
18:00 Connectives
21:00 Text level: Informational text structure vs narrative text structure
24:00 Reading research for middle schoolers
26:00 Writing assessment structure for middle school
32:00 What does this type of instruction look like in the classroom?
34:00 Importance of grades 4 & 5 to the development of informational reading and writing skills
35:00 Advice for teachers on teaching information reading and writing
39:00 Get involved in special education
*Timestamps are approximate

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Judith Hochman, Ed.D., co-author of “The Writing Revolution.” Their conversation begins as Dr. Hochman recalls the early days of writing instruction and research, then delves into the connection between better writing and better reading. Dr. Hochman touches upon topics such as writing comprehension, her experience implementing writing instruction as a classroom teacher and as an administrator, and how the writing revolution came to be. She also answers a question from our listener mailbag, providing a detailed overview of the scope and sequence for transitioning student writing from sentence composition to paragraphs to whole texts.

Show notes:

• Resources
  • Read: The Writing Revolution 2.0: A Guide to Advancing Thinking Through Writing in All Subjects and Grades
  • Website: The Writing Revolution
  • Read: “The Writing Revolution” in The Atlantic
• Join our community Facebook group: www.facebook.com/groups/scienceofreading
• Connect with Susan Lambert: www.linkedin.com/in/susan-lambert-b1512761/

Quotes:

“I had an epiphany that our students really had to learn writing as a second language.” —Judith Hochman

“Having students write a lot is not teaching writing. It's just like if you put a lot of books in a classroom, students don't magically begin to read.” —Judith Hochman

“This is not learned by osmosis, and it's not learned by vague feedback like, ‘Make it better,’ or, ‘Add more details.’ You've got to be very granular. This is not a naturally occurring skill in human development for any of us.” —Judith Hochman

Episode timestamps*
03:00 Introduction: Who is Judith Hochman?
06:00 Time as an administrator
09:00 Judith’s early days of teaching writing
11:00 Classroom activities for teaching students to write
12:00 Atlantic article and NYC high school case
15:00 The writing revolution
16:00 How kids learn to write based on the research
20:00 Listener mailbag question
21:00 Writing and comprehension
27:00 Transitioning from writing sentences to writing paragraphs
34:00 Final thoughts
*Timestamps are approximate

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Jane Ashby, professor in the Reading Science doctoral program at Mount St. Joseph University. They define the concept of “settled science” as a jumping-off point before digging into phonology and the argument for not always basing your teaching practice on the newest research. Dr. Ashby touches on the impact of phonology on comprehension, the Matthew Effect, and why the term “instant words” is more accurate than “sight words.” You’ll walk away from this episode with two practical exercises Dr. Ashby recommends for teaching students to transfer oral segmenting and blending to reading and writing tasks.

Show notes

• Connect with Jane Ashby:
  • Mt. St. Joseph University
• Resources
  • Teaching Phonemic Awareness in 2024: A Guide for Educators
  • Read: Phonological recoding and self-teaching: sine qua non of reading acquisition
  • More: The Four-Part Processing Model for Word Recognition
  • Read: Matthew effects in reading: Some consequences of individual differences in the acquisition of literacy.
• Join our community Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/scienceofreading
• Connect with Susan Lambert: www.linkedin.com/in/susan-lambert-b1512761/
• Want to hear more of Dr. Ashby? Listen to the bonus episode!

Quotes

“To store a vocabulary word, it's not enough to have the meaning. You have to have the entry for it, and the entry for it is the sound form of the word.” —Jane Ashby

“The greatest gift you can give a kid is letting them know that you see that they're special and that they have something unique that they bring to the world. But the second piece is really, can you help them become a confident, independent reader?” —Jane Ashby

Episode timestamps*

2:00 Introduction: Who is Jane Ashby?
6:00 Defining and contextualizing “settled science”
13:00 Phonology as settled science
17:00 Instant words vs sight words
20:00 How phonology impacts comprehension
26:00 Connection to the Matthew Effect
31:00 Listener mailbag question: How do you suggest teachers teach students to transfer oral segmenting and blending to reading and writing tasks?
37:00 Teaching phonemic awareness guide
39:00 Research that should influence teacher practice
41:00 The greatest gift you can give a child

*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert is joined by Tiffany Hogan, a professor at MGH Institute of Health Professions in Boston, who studies the connections among speech and language and literacy across time in children. Together, Susan and Dr. Hogan explore the complexities of language, the components that form language, and the significance of language for literacy. Dr. Hogan explains Developmental Language Disorder (DLD)—its characteristics, its prevalence, and the challenges in recognizing it. She emphasizes the importance of supporting children with DLD and the role of educators in making a difference long-term. She also provides listeners with effective strategies for supporting children with oral language deficits, offers insights into the relationship between background knowledge and language, and answers questions from our listener mailbag.

Show notes:

• Connect with Tiffany Hogan
  • X: @tiffanyphogan
  • Facebook: sailliteracylab
  • Instagram: @seehearspeakpodcast
  • Podcast: seehearspeakpodcast.com
• Resources
  • Website: DLDandMe.org
  • Read: A Review of Screeners to Identify Risk of Developmental Language Disorder
  • Website: Raising Awareness of Developmental Language Disorder
  • Listen: SeeHearSpeak podcast with Tiffany Hogan
  • Policy Paper: If we don’t look, we won’t see: Measuring language development to inform literacy instruction
  • Listen: Focused implementation: Doing less to do more, with Doug Reeves, Ph.D.
• Join our community Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/scienceofreading
• Connect with Susan Lambert: www.linkedin.com/in/susan-lambert-b1512761/
• Listen to Beyond My Years: Building an education network to make change, starring A. Simone McQuaige.

Quotes:
“Neurodiversity means that we have lots of different ways to think, and we each come to the table with different brain structures” –Tiffany Hogan, Ph.D.

”Oral language difficulties are a crystal ball into reading comprehension” –Tiffany Hogan, Ph.D.

“You, as an educator, can be the one that really makes a difference for that child. It only takes one person to make a huge difference in the life of a child” –Tiffany Hogan, Ph.D.

Episode timestamps*
02:00 Introduction: Who is Tiffany Hogan?
04:00 Defining language
05:00 Language development and its Impact on literacy
10:00 Variability in language learning
11:00 Developmental Language Disorder (DLD)
18:00 Challenges in Identifying and Supporting DLD
20:00 The Importance of Vision Screening
21:00 Universal Screeners for DLD
24:00 Listener mailbag: How can educators most effectively help students with oral language deficits in early childhood prepare and develop literacy?
28:00 The Connection Between Language and Background Knowledge
30:00 Understanding DLD and Its Challenges
33:00 The Role of Speech Language Pathologists
35:00 Final Thoughts

In this episode, Susan Lambert rejoins podcast alum Natalie Wexler to discuss Natalie’s new book Beyond the Science of Reading: Connecting Literacy Instruction to the Science of Learning. Listeners will gain insights into why this topic is important, what this book offers educators, why Natalie was so drawn to writing this book, and what cognitive science-informed teaching looks like in general. Natalie addresses how cognitive load theory works in practice with literacy, misconceptions about focusing only on phonics, and scaling science-informed instruction. Natalie also answers a question from the listener mailbag about encouraging colleagues to adopt an evidence-based approach.

Show notes:

• Connect with Natalie Wexler:
  • Website: nataliewexler.com
  • Pre-order Beyond the Science of Reading: Connecting Literacy Instruction to the Science of Learning: https://ascd.org/books/beyond-the-science-of-reading?variant=125006
  • Substack: Minding the Gap, by Natalie Wexler
• Resources:
  • Listen: Special: Why the Science of Reading isn't just about reading, with Natalie Wexler
  • Listen: Conversation with Make It Stick author Peter C. Brown
  • Listen: Cognitive load theory: Four items at a time, with Greg Ashman
  • Substack: The Bell Ringer by Holly Korbey
• Join our community Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/scienceofreading
• Connect with Susan Lambert: www.linkedin.com/in/susan-lambert-b1512761/
• Listen to Illinois administrator Serena Klosa on Beyond My Years!

Quotes:
“We’re overlooking the ways in which the typical approach to teaching reading comprehension and writing actually conflict with what cognitive science tells us about how people learn to do those things.” —Natalie Wexler

“We spend much more time trying to teach…them to read, but we kind of expect them to just pick up writing. You know, for most kids, it does not happen.” —Natalie Wexler

“No matter how good you are at making inferences, if you don't have the requisite background knowledge, you're not gonna be able to do it.” —Natalie Wexler

“It doesn't work to just ask inexperienced writers to just write down stuff. That is not going to provide the cognitive benefits.” —Natalie Wexler

Episode timestamps*
02:00 Introduction: Who is Natalie Wexler?
04:00 Natalie’s new book
07:00 What is the science of learning?
11:00 Connecting the science of learning to reading, writing, literacy
14:00 Automaticity and cognitive load theory
17:00 Transferable vs non-transferable skills
22:00 Strategies to release cognitive load when learning new skills
24:00 Learning to write, writing to learn.
29:00 Bringing science informed teaching to scale
32:00 What readers will take away from the book
33:00 Mailbag question: How can one person get more colleagues to use an evidence-based approach?
36:00 Final thoughts
*Timestamps are approximate

Amplify’s 2024 Science of Reading Star Award winners share insights from their daily work. They reflect on why it’s so critical to stay grounded in evidence-based literacy practices and how they bring those practices into their schools and classrooms. Listeners will be inspired by the creative ideas of educators who are making a difference in the lives of students across the country. Winners honored in the episode in order of appearance are: Amber Hines, Vance County Schools, NC; Elizabeth Caton, Windber Area Elementary School, PA; Jamie Vannoy, Wirt County Primary Center, WV; Christine Michalik, Cicero School District 99, IL; Andrea Mason, County Line Elementary School, GA; A. Simone McQuaige, Prince George’s County Public Schools, MD.

Show notes:

• Apply for the 2025 Amplify Science of Reading Star Awards
• Learn more about our 2024 Star Award winners
• Subscribe to Beyond My Years

Quotes:
“There is no, ‘Let's try this. Let's try that.’ When it's evidence based, you know that it's proven to be effective.” —Amber Hines

“It's important that we are aligning our practices to standards and what the students are required to do—but also what they need.” —Elizabeth Caton

“If we don't make a conscious effort to utilize evidence-based practices, we are going to be failing our most at-risk populations.” —Jamie Vannoy

“All students should have the opportunity for multiple readings of the same text to build comprehension, to build fluency.” —Christine Michalik

“It's really important to utilize assessments, [to] make sure that my students are getting exactly what they need based on the data that I get from assessments, but also based on the data that I get from regular progress monitoring.” —Andrea Mason

“This is not something that can be just done at the schoolhouse. It involves the community and all of our community stakeholders.” —A. Simone McQuaige