Marketing Beyond with Alan B. Hart Podcast By Alan B. Hart cover art

Marketing Beyond with Alan B. Hart

Marketing Beyond with Alan B. Hart

By: Alan B. Hart
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 Join Alan B. Hart as he dives into conversations with the world’s leading chief marketing officers and business innovators. Tune in to get inspired by the stories and experiences of marketing visionaries—and stay ahead of the curve.© 2025 Economics Marketing Marketing & Sales
Episodes
  • 11: Exploring the “2025 CMO Tenure Study”: Insights from Richard Sanderson, marketing, sales, and communications practice leader at Spencer Stuart

    11: Exploring the “2025 CMO Tenure Study”: Insights from Richard Sanderson, marketing, sales, and communications practice leader at Spencer Stuart
    Jun 18 2025
    What do executive recruiters look for when placing chief marketing officer (CMO) candidates? Why do CMOs have some of the shortest average tenures among the C-suite? Richard Sanderson has spent nearly his entire career as an executive recruiter. He began as an intern at Russell Reynolds Associates in the United Kingdom, then eventually joined them full-time, and was relocated to the United States. He went on to get his Master of Business Administration from the University of Chicago before shifting into a new role as Senior Associate at Booz & Company. After five years in consulting, Richard rejoined Russell Reynolds Associates before moving into his current marketing, communications, and sales practice leader role at Spencer Stuart. In his role, he has led a series of high-profile Fortune 500 chief marketing officer (CMO) searches. In today's episode, Alan and Richard break down the 2025 Chief Marketing Officer Tenure Study. They discuss what the data shows regarding career trajectories, changing titles and expectations, and the future of marketing leadership. Richard also shares what he seeks in CMO candidates when filling a role, provides listeners with actionable tips for interviews, and suggests that marketers align their language with their CEO’s priorities. In this episode, you'll learn: The ABCs of interviewing: Leading practices and common pitfalls Career paths for CMOs after their tenure What shifting marketing leadership titles means for the role Key quotes: “Yes, it's your resume that gets your foot in the door... but it's the chemistry and the culture that gets you the job.” - Richard Sanderson, marketing, sales, and communications practice leader at Spencer Stuart “Low tenure is not a sign of failure... Many marketing leaders are being promoted into bigger and better roles. So, in other words, short tenure [does not mean] a bunch of CMOs [are] being fired. It's quite the opposite... a bunch of CMOs being promoted and given other opportunities.” - Richard Sanderson, marketing, sales, and communications practice leader at Spencer Stuart “Ultimately, when you think about the constituents of the C-suite, who is the voice of the customer? Is it the chief financial officer? Not really. Is it the chief information officer? I don't think so. Is it the chief HR leader? No. Really... the marketing leader is the true customer or consumer advocate; they are the voice of the customer.” - Richard Sanderson, marketing, sales, and communications practice leader at Spencer Stuart Key highlights: [02:10] A new (destructive) addition to the family [03:35] Richard’s unusual path to executive recruiting [06:55] How to shine in the job search and interview [13:36] CMO tenure data [17:00] Why CEO tenure is an outlier [19:05] Where do the CMOs go? [23:45] Evolution of the CMO role in financial services and healthcare [26:05] Changing titles and responsibilities [29:05] The marketing to CEO pipeline [32:00] An experience that defines you: Living cross-culturally [34:35] Advice to your younger self: Treasure your time [36:15] A topic marketers need to learn more about: The shifts in industry and politicization of brands [40:30] Largest opportunity to marketers today: Align the agenda and talk the language Resources mentioned: Richard Sanderson Spencer Stuart 2025 CMO Tenure Study Follow the podcast: Listen on Apple Podcasts   Listen on Amazon Music  Listen on Audible  Listen on iHeart Radio Listen on Spotify   Connect with Richard Sanderson and Spencer Stuart Richard Sanderson on LinkedIn Spencer Stuart on X Spencer Stuart on Facebook Spencer Stuart on YouTube Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:    Alan Hart on X Alan Hart on LinkedIn  Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn  Deloitte Digital on Instagram  Deloitte Digital on YouTube 
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    43 mins
  • 10: The strategic genius of Taylor Swift: Insights from Kevin Evers, senior editor at Harvard Business Review

    10: The strategic genius of Taylor Swift: Insights from Kevin Evers, senior editor at Harvard Business Review
    Jun 4 2025
    What lessons can marketers learn from Taylor Swift’s massive success? In today's episode, Alan Hart talks with Kevin Evers, senior editor at Harvard Business Review and author of the book There’s Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift, about the branding and strategy lessons marketers can learn from the record-breaking artist. He reveals what prompted him to write about Swift and the commonalities he discovered between Taylor, Jeff Bezos, Jerry Garcia, The Beatles, and Reddit's true crime communities. Kevin explains that since the start of her career, Taylor has created “blank space” for herself in crowded categories through innovative differentiation techniques, like insisting on writing her own songs as a teen girl for teen girls at a time when most hits on country radio were performed by men. He notes she has a classic entrepreneurial spirit that has helped her beat the odds and defy what the data said was possible to reach levels of fame beyond most people’s expectations. Kevin and Alan discuss the rebranding lessons marketers can learn from Taylor’s transition from country to pop music and noting how she integrates personal connection into every aspect of her approach while maintaining the allure of scarcity with her dedicated fanbase. Kevin suggests that Taylor Swift’s success goes beyond her songwriting talent and superstar status. He believes it’s her strategic marketing approach and deep connection with her fans that truly set her apart—a lesson that all marketers can learn from. Key quotes: "Her customer obsession is her secret sauce. Again, incredibly talented, a great songwriter, but talent isn’t necessarily a scalable asset, but she knows that her fans are a scalable asset.” - Kevin Evers, senior editor at Harvard Business Review “She sets high expectations and then she exceeds those expectations. And in most cases, she gives fans more than they maybe even deserve and I think that fan obsession is a big part of why her fans stick around for so long, and when she’s able to recruit new fans.” - Kevin Evers, senior editor at Harvard Business Review In this episode, you'll learn: The importance of Taylor Swift's “fan-first approach” Rebranding lessons from her shift from country to pop How Taylor has wisely evolved her marketing strategy over the years Key highlights: [01:30] Delayed speech created a great interviewer [03:00] Kevin’s unconventional path to Harvard Business Review [03:55] Where did the idea for his new book come from? [05:15] Taylor Swift as a brand [06:35] A “fans first approach” [12:00] Taylor’s approach to risk [14:00] Rebranding from country to pop [16:55] Pros and cons of fame [18:25] How Tayor's media strategy has shifted [24:45] Differentiation in a crowded category [28:45] An experience that defines you: Embracing the creative process [30:20] Advice to your younger self: It’s all going to be okay [33:20] A topic marketers need to learn more about: What will break through? [35:05] Subcultures to follow: Superfan subculture [36:10] Largest threat to marketers today: A crowded marketplace Resources mentioned: Kevin Evers Harvard Business Review There’s Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift Grateful Dead Bootlegs Pear Jam Wishlist Deep Taylor Fandom on Reddit Follow the podcast: Listen on Apple Podcasts   Listen on Amazon Music  Listen on Audible  Listen on iHeart Radio Listen on Spotify   Connect with Kevin Evers and Harvard Business Review Kevin Evers on X
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    39 mins
  • 9: What’s next for performance marketing? Insights from Ed Kennedy, group product marketing manager at Adobe

    9: What’s next for performance marketing? Insights from Ed Kennedy, group product marketing manager at Adobe
    May 14 2025
    What if you could know how new creative would perform before you invest in it? This is the exact functionality Adobe's latest creative intelligence tools are working towards. In today's episode, Alan chats with Ed Kennedy, group product marketing manager at Adobe, to explore their new Generative AI (GenAI) tools. These tools provide a gateway for marketers to scale the impact of GenAI while maintaining the balance between cost efficiency and performance. Ed leads all the go-to-market strategy for Adobe's new GenAI products. This includes GenStudio for Performance Marketing which provides granular insights down to specific attributes of each ad, so marketers and creatives can work simultaneously to activate high-performing campaigns. GenAI is causing many agencies and brand leaders to reevaluate their operating model, but Ed tells Alan that Adobe believes in an "AI-created, human-perfected" approach. This means GenAI takes on the low-value, repetitive, mundane tasks in the creative process, and then humans review and approve. If “marketers are marketing to consumers or businesses, then the humans are going to be in the driving seat,” Ed notes in response to concerns around AI. He also outlines the best use cases for AI agents and cautions marketers against skepticism of this evolving technology. Key quotes: “We're big on "AI created, human-perfected" in all the go-to-market messaging that we're bringing out and helping CMOs understand they can do this.” - Ed Kennedy, group product marketing manager at Adobe “If you can look at the performance of the ad itself on the content or creative level, you can quickly double down on what's working and turn off what's not working. And I think that's where we're saving our clients spend because we're just not putting dollars behind bad creative or just underperforming creative.” - Ed Kennedy, group product marketing manager at Adobe “Our ultimate vision is that you should actually be able to score your creative before it ships – if it actually is going to perform well.” - Ed Kennedy, group product marketing manager at Adobe “We're trying to get to a place... where the brief becomes the new prompt. So instead of entering a prompt to get content, you submit your brief and ... the agent starts working for you.” - Ed Kennedy, group product marketing manager at Adobe In this episode, you'll learn: Potential business use cases for GenAI today How Adobe GenStudio is bringing marketers and creatives closer together through data What the future of marketing jobs may look like Key highlights: [01:25] Yoga for work-life balance [02:50] Ed’s path to Adobe [03:55] The scope of his role [04:30] GenAI to drive advertising performance [06:05] Versioning with GenAI [07:45] Reevaluating the operating model [10:05] Scaling the impact of GenAI [11:45] Cost efficiency versus performance [12:50] What is creative intelligence? [15:20] Bringing performance and creative closer to data [18:05] AI agents and internal evangelists [21:30] An experience that defines you: It’s a ride, not a race [25:25] Advice to your younger self: Drop the intensity and expectations [26:45] A topic marketers need to learn more about: F.I.R.E [28:10] What are you curious about: AI video generation [29:50] Largest threat to marketers today: Cynicism on the sidelines Resources mentioned: Ed Kennedy Adobe GenStudio Agentic AI GenAI Follow the podcast: Listen on Apple Podcasts   Listen on Amazon Music 
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    33 mins
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