As we reel and resist Trump’s careless breakdown of government, society and the economy, I speak with CHRIS HUGHES, a co-founder of Facebook, who left the company in 2007 and called for META’s breakup in 2019. In the first 45 minutes, we talk about the current state of tech and then dive into his new book, MARKETCRAFTERS: The 100-Year Struggle to Shape the American Economy. How do we prepare to repair what Trump is destroying? For the final 15, I read a speech I gave in 1989 - 36 years ago - at my 20th college reunion, Harvard class of 1969. Ours was the year of the building takeover and the campus strike. In it I asked how we were living up to our youthful ideals. Today I find my words prescient, hopeful, and tragic.

In Trump’s tax bill, 60% of cuts go to the top 20% (income: $217K+). More than a third to top 5% ($460K+) Households earning less than $51K will see income drop next year. Top 0.1% will get an average boost of $390K. Time for one of my favorite episodes: my January 2010 conversation with Richard Wilkinson & Kate Pickett about their groundbreaking book, The Spirit Level. Based on 30 years of research, it makes clear that the more unequal a society is, the worse it is - in all sorts of dimension - for everybody – rich and poor alike. Worth a listen.

Wilkinson.Pickett - Transcript

When I decided to speak with TIM JACKSON about his new book, THE CARE ECONOMY, I had second thoughts. What could be further from our current reality in the US than a care economy? Would talking about it seem naïve? But as Robert Reich makes clear, “We need to demonstrate not just against Trump but also for the America we want,” and this episode is part of my attempt to imagine and flesh out such a vision. Jackson is Director of the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity in he UK and his earlier books include PROSPERITY WITHOUT GROWTH and POST GROWTH: Life After Capitalism. You can learn more at timjackson.org.uk

Jackson, Tim-05-15-2025-Transcript