The deprecation of third-party cookies and rise of privacy regulations have reshaped digital advertising—and publishers are feeling the pressure. While curation was once hailed as a fix, its first wave prioritized intermediaries over true innovation. Today, a new model is emerging: one that puts publishers back in control and redefines how agencies access high-quality, trusted supply.

In this episode of First-Party Pod, Gloria and Rio sit down with Joe Root, CEO and co-founder of Permutive, to unpack the evolution from Curation 1.0 to 2.0—and what it means for publishers, agencies, and the open web. They explore how legacy data arbitrage models gave rise to opaque, unsustainable practices, and why the next wave of curation must be powered by publisher-owned signals and agency-led deal construction.

They also dive into the promise of probabilistic clean rooms, the shifting economics of deal-based media buying, and why deterministic identity is holding the open internet back. Joe shares how Permutive is enabling real-time, privacy-safe activation of publisher data, why AI is transforming campaign optimization, and how clean room and curation innovations can finally deliver scalable, addressable advertising.

Plus, they discuss how publishers are monetizing previously unbiddable signals, how agencies can regain control of media quality, and why the future of ad tech will be won on trust, speed, and collaboration.

The pressure to drive measurable outcomes while protecting consumer data has never been higher. Clean rooms are emerging as the go-to solution, but making them work across teams, platforms, and priorities is still a work in progress. For Amazon, establishing trust—across underlying tech, legal, and business dimensions—is foundational to successful clean room adoption and broader collaboration within Amazon Marketing Cloud.

In this episode of First-Party Pod, Gloria and Rio are joined by Alan Lewis, Director of AMC at Amazon Ads, to explore how Amazon is investing in tools that make secure, scalable data partnerships possible. From the rise of interoperable data environments and evolving advertiser expectations to data collaboration via AMC on AWS Clean Rooms, they unpack how Amazon is designing for trust, transparency, and long-term collaboration.

They also discuss how brands are using AMC through new innovations like Brand+ and Performance+, why path to purchase reports often lack actionability, and how aggregation thresholds shape what advertisers can and can’t measure. Plus, Alan shares thoughts on agency complexity, third-party partnerships, and the overlooked opportunity in frequency optimization.

Incrementality is often misunderstood—with many misusing the term, relying on attribution reports instead of true controlled experiments. So how can brands ensure that they are running an incrementality test correctly? In the latest episode of First-Party Pod, Gloria and Rio break down the differences between incrementality, MMMs, and attribution and how the three can work together to prove the effectiveness of advertising.

They also explore the downfall of last-click attribution, the rise of clean rooms, and how first-party data collaboration improves measurement accuracy. With cookies disappearing, they discuss what all these changes mean for the future of advertising and whether AI-driven measurement tools can truly replace traditional analytics.

Plus, a look at The Trade Desk’s stock plunge, outcomes vs quality, High Touch’s latest investment, and the future of AppLovin’.

Tune in for the First-Party takes!