Episodes

  • Episode 14: Part 2: Manifestations of the Spirit: Being you, Being Weird, and Loving Well

    Episode 14: Part 2: Manifestations of the Spirit: Being you, Being Weird, and Loving Well
    Jun 23 2025
    Summary The podcast episode from Between Heaven and Earth, hosted by Justin and Amy Howard, explores the intersection of spiritual manifestations, ministry, and the Holy Spirit’s work in daily life and church communities. The conversation dives into understanding physical manifestations of spiritual power, distinguishing between immature and disobedient ministry expressions, and processing personal wounds from “weird” or harmful ministry experiences. The hosts emphasize love as the core motive of Christian ministry, cautioning against rigid “formulaic” approaches and encouraging discernment rooted in grace and compassion. They share stories illustrating how God’s power can work through imperfect people, highlighting the importance of recognizing God’s love beyond human flaws. The discussion encourages believers to cultivate a hunger for more of the Spirit’s work, to embrace risky obedience out of love, and to develop mature leadership that fosters safe spaces for growth without enabling chaos. They advocate for healthy liturgical structures that facilitate encounters with the Holy Spirit without demanding emotional extremes, stressing the importance of both order and openness to spontaneous Spirit-led moments. The episode concludes by urging listeners who have been hurt to engage in forgiveness and healing, nurture personal discernment, and lean on community and professional help where necessary. Ultimately, it calls Christians to courageously live as a vibrant, Spirit-led community that embodies the love and power of God in everyday life. Highlights 🌟 Love is the ultimate aim of ministry, shaping how spiritual gifts and obedience manifest.🔥 Physical manifestations of the Spirit’s power, including healing, should be expected and embraced in whole-person experiences.💔 Forgiveness and healing are crucial for those hurt by immature or harmful ministry practices.🤔 Distinguishing between immaturity and disobedience in ministry fosters grace and accountability.🌿 Cultivating a hunger for the Holy Spirit’s presence is essential for spiritual growth and revival.🕊️ Healthy liturgy balances order and openness, creating space for Spirit encounters without chaos.🤝 Community, prayer, and professional support can help believers process wounds and deepen their relationship with God. Key Insights 💖 Love as the Fulfillment of the Law and Ministry’s Foundation: The hosts repeatedly underscore that loving God and loving others are the fulfillment of God’s law—the central “main thing” in ministry. This means ministry must be shaped not by formulas or performance but by genuine love, embodied in patience, humility, and grace. Misguided approaches driven by pride, fear, or control hinder the true flow of the Spirit and harm relationships. Love becomes the litmus test that validates spiritual experiences and leadership effectiveness. 🌬️ Physical and Emotional Manifestations Reflect a Whole-Person Encounter With God: Justin and Amy assert that Christian experience is holistic, involving body, mind, and spirit. Manifestations such as healing or emotional renewal are biblically grounded and meant to be normal, not aberrations limited to fringe groups. Embracing these expressions leads believers into wholeness and a tangible experience of God’s kingdom among us. 🩹 Navigating Hurt from Abusive or Disruptive Ministry: A significant part of the discussion deals with addressing pain caused by ministry that was immature, sinful, or manipulative. The hosts advocate intentional forgiveness as a release, alongside a season of healing often requiring community and professional help. This approach recognizes the reality of trauma and encourages a pathway toward restoration rather than bitterness or judgment. ⚖️ Differentiating Immaturity From Disobedience Is Crucial for Spiritual Maturity: Not all “weird” behaviors or unexpected manifestations reflect disobedience. Some reflect immaturity—a normal phase in growth requiring patient correction. Labeling immature expressions as disobedience can stifle growth and alienate people. Properly assessing situations with compassion, asking probing questions, and guiding with grace can transform environments into places where people feel safe to “fail forward.” 🔥 Risky Obedience Out of Love Spurs Spiritual Breakthroughs: The podcast shares a story highlighting God’s power working through someone immature and flawed, emphasizing that God’s healing is motivated by His love for broken people, not human perfection or credentials. Risky obedience—acting in faith with a loving heart even if it feels unconventional—is contrasted with unloving actions driven by formulaic or manipulative motives. 🎶 Liturgy as a Vessel for Encountering God, Balancing Order With Openness: The hosts challenge the notion that Spirit-led worship must always be spontaneous or emotionally intense. They argue for thoughtful...
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    46 mins
  • Episode 13: Part 1: Manifestations of the Spirit: Being you, Being Weird, and Loving Well

    Episode 13: Part 1: Manifestations of the Spirit: Being you, Being Weird, and Loving Well
    Jun 16 2025
    Summary The podcast episode from Between Heaven and Earth, hosted by Justin and Amy Howard, delves into the often misunderstood and sometimes “weird” manifestations of the Holy Spirit in ministry and worship settings. They explore how such expressions—ranging from emotional worship experiences to prophetic acts and deliverance ministry—can sometimes appear odd or unsettling to observers yet hold significant spiritual meaning. The hosts emphasize the core purpose of any Spirit-led ministry: to help people truly know and feel God’s love, rather than to draw attention to individuals or create theatrical displays. They stress the importance of balancing openness to the Holy Spirit’s movement with mature discernment to avoid exploitation, manipulation, or immaturity in ministry expressions. The conversation is candid about the challenges leaders and congregations face when unconventional manifestations occur, including emotional intensity, physical reactions such as shaking or falling, and prophetic acts that may initially unsettle the community. Amy and Justin wrestle with how cultural expectations, fear of judgment, insecurity, and pressure can lead ministry participants to act artificially or “weird.” Throughout, they highlight scriptural foundations and emphasize that true prophetic and Holy Spirit ministry must ultimately produce the fruit of the Spirit—love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control—and bring glory to Jesus rather than focusing on human performance. They also address how physical manifestations—though sometimes uncomfortable or misunderstood—may accompany genuine encounters with God, citing biblical examples and personal stories. The hosts conclude by encouraging listeners to love well, exercise wisdom, and embrace authenticity in their spiritual journeys without succumbing to anxiety or the compulsion to control others’ experiences. Highlights 🙏 Exploring Holy Spirit manifestations that can appear unconventional or “weird” without losing spiritual authenticity.❤️ The primary goal of Spirit-led ministry is to foster genuine love and connection to God, not spectacle or control.🔍 Discernment is key: manifestations must be weighed against biblical fruit and focus on Jesus, not individual attention.☯️ Balancing emotional worship with maturity to avoid manipulation or unnecessary theatricality.🎭 Pressure, fear, and insecurity often drive people to perform or replicate strange behaviors in ministry settings.✨ Scriptural prophetic acts can be unusual or jarring but must ultimately edify and build up the church in love.🛡️ Caring leadership involves loving both the individual experiencing God in a unique way and the corporate community simultaneously. Key Insights 🔥 Manifestations of the Spirit are diverse and can be misunderstood: The podcast acknowledges that manifestations such as shaking, laughing, falling, or prophetic acts can seem strange to outsiders or even insiders but often represent genuine encounters with God’s presence and power. However, this diversity requires careful discernment to avoid mistaking human immaturity or emotional manipulation for divine activity. This insight reminds ministry leaders to cultivate an environment where authenticity and spiritual fruitfulness override the desire for control or spectacle. 🤝 Love is the ultimate litmus test for ministry practices: The hosts underscore that the hallmark of any authentic Holy Spirit activity is love—both for God and neighbor. Manifestations that cause division, offense, or self-glorification fail this test. Love involves patience, gentleness, kindness, and self-control, even amid intense emotional or spiritual experiences. This emphasis on love challenges ministries to prioritize relational integrity and community health over dramatic displays. ⚖️ Cultural and personal factors contribute to “weirdness” in ministry: Anxiety, fear of judgment, immaturity, and pressure within congregations or leadership groups often motivate exaggerated or performative behavior. For example, young or insecure individuals may mimic behaviors they have seen without fully understanding their spiritual significance, and leaders may pressure others to “look spiritual” on stage. Recognizing these dynamics is vital to fostering a spiritually mature and supportive atmosphere that honors the Spirit without fostering competition or manipulation. 📖 Biblical prophetic acts often defy social norms and include discomfort: The podcast references prophets like Ezekiel, Hosea, and Isaiah, who enacted jarring, unconventional acts commanded by God, sometimes involving suffering or public embarrassment. This contextualizes seemingly strange modern manifestations within a biblical framework, reminding listeners that God can use unusual methods to communicate and redeem, though genuine prophecy ultimately points to Jesus and ...
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    49 mins
  • Episode 12: Part 2: How to Suffer Well: Honesty and Friendship with Jesus

    Episode 12: Part 2: How to Suffer Well: Honesty and Friendship with Jesus
    Jun 9 2025
    Summary In this episode of Between Heaven and Earth, hosts Justin and Amy Howard explore the complex nature of suffering caused by other people’s sin and how followers of Jesus can engage with it biblically and practically. The discussion distinguishes between forgiveness, healing, and reconciliation—three distinct responses to suffering that often get conflated. Forgiveness is a personal choice to release retribution, healing is a divine work of restoration, and reconciliation requires mutual effort and repentance. They delve into common unhealthy ways people respond to suffering caused by others, such as codependency, where one absorbs harm wrongly, leading to emotional and physical consequences. Instead, they advocate for an “upcycling” approach of handing suffering over to Jesus and partnering with Him in healing, which requires setting healthy boundaries, acknowledging anger, and reframing pain in a Christian spiritual context. The hosts affirm the validity and importance of anger as a divine signal that propels one to action but warn against unresolved resentment and rage, which are harmful and unchristian. Through personal testimony, they illustrate how setting boundaries guided by God’s love can transform difficult relationships. They also introduce the concept of “love covering a multitude of sins” (1 Peter 4:8), emphasizing that love does not ignore sin but chooses relationship and costly engagement nonetheless, modeled on Christ’s sacrificial love. The discussion extends to the mysterious and redemptive nature of “unitive suffering,” where believers share in Christ’s sufferings, deepening intimacy with Him and others. Finally, they offer practical pastoral wisdom: suffering is often mysterious, healing is incremental, humility is crucial when intervening in others’ pain, and prayer should be honest, raw, and persistent—marked by a shameless audacity to bring our suffering to God. The episode encourages listeners to embrace suffering as part of spiritual growth while maintaining hope and trust in divine healing and restoration. Highlights 💡 Forgiveness, healing, and reconciliation are distinct but interconnected responses to suffering caused by others’ sin.🔥 Anger is a healthy, God-given signal that calls for action and boundary-setting.🤝 Codependent responses to suffering are harmful; healthy boundaries and handing pain to Jesus are crucial.❤️ “Love covers a multitude of sins” means choosing relationship despite cost, following Christ’s example.🌿 Unitive suffering deepens intimacy with Christ by participating in His sufferings.⏳ Healing often takes time and involves gradual restoration rather than instant relief.🙏 Honest, persistent prayer with shameless audacity is essential in engaging suffering and receiving God’s guidance. Key Insights 😔 Differentiating Forgiveness, Healing, and Reconciliation: Forgiveness is a voluntary release of personal vengeance; healing is God’s work restoring brokenness; reconciliation requires mutual repentance and rebuilding trust. This clarity prevents common misunderstandings in pastoral care and personal relationships, emphasizing that forgiveness does not necessitate instant reconciliation nor does healing always follow immediately.🛑 The Danger of Codependency: Absorbing others’ sin and pain as one’s own, often justified as “being holy” or a “good victim,” leads to emotional overload, physical symptoms, and eventual relational explosion. Recognizing codependency allows believers to break cycles of dysfunction by learning to set boundaries and hand over pain to Jesus rather than internalizing it.😠 Biblical Role of Anger as a Propellant for Action: Anger in Scripture reflects God’s righteousness and motivates necessary action for justice and boundary-setting. Healthy anger is not sinful but is a bodily and spiritual signal that “something is not good.” When properly stewarded, anger leads to constructive responses that defend one’s integrity and relational health. Conversely, unresolved anger breeds resentment (bitterness and desire for revenge) and rage (dehumanizing aggression), both destructive and unbiblical.💔 Love Covering a Multitude of Sins in Real Relationships: This biblical principle, often misunderstood as ignoring sin, actually reflects costly relational engagement despite ongoing brokenness. It mirrors Christ’s sacrificial love toward imperfect people, meaning Christians are invited to sustain relationships in grace even when it hurts, thereby participating in God’s redemptive work of restoration.🔄 The Mystery and Participation in Unitive Suffering: Believers are called not only to endure suffering but to participate with Christ in His sufferings, deepening intimacy with Him and transforming suffering into spiritual union. This concept, rooted in Pauline theology and early church teaching, reframes suffering as a sacred fellowship rather ...
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    57 mins
  • Episode 11

    Episode 11
    Jun 2 2025
    51 mins
  • Episode 10: The Power of an Encounter Weekend - A Pastor's Experience

    Episode 10: The Power of an Encounter Weekend - A Pastor's Experience
    May 26 2025
    Summary The podcast episode from Between Heaven and Earth features hosts Justin and Amy Howard interviewing Pastor Shea Fitzgibbons from Bethany Church, New Hampshire, about the transformative impact of Encounter Culture Mission Collaborative (ECMC) on his ministry and congregation. Pastor Shea shares his personal journey to pastoral ministry, highlighting the deep challenges of pastoral life, including stress, loneliness, and burnout. He emphasizes the critical need for holistic discipleship that addresses emotional, spiritual, and physical healing while fostering authentic community within the church. Shea describes his introduction to ECMC events like Encounter God weekends, Encounter Equip trainings, and Encounter Life cohorts, and how these have reshaped his perspective on prayer ministry and healing in a practical, non-weird way suited to his culturally reserved church context. The interview explores common pastoral and congregational concerns around charismatic expressions and the balance of spiritual openness with structure and respect. Shea reveals how these programs promote genuine healing, transparency, and community through practices like confession, prayer ministry, and mutual support. He shares encouraging stories of congregants empowered to bring healing prayer into everyday life and evangelism without formulaic approaches. The episode also addresses broader cultural and spiritual struggles in churches that reflect the brokenness of society, such as addiction, loneliness, and complacency. The hosts and Pastor Shea urge church leaders and followers to pursue authentic encounters with God’s love and healing power that extend beyond information to embodied transformation and mission. The conversation closes with a hopeful call for churches to foster honest, healing environments where people can bring their pain openly and experience the power of community and the Spirit. The interview highlights ECMC’s role in equipping ordinary believers for ministry and prayer that bridges heaven and earth with practical love and restoration. Highlights 🙏 Pastor Shea’s journey from engineer to pastor embodies God’s gentle, persistent call to ministry.💡 ECMC’s holistic discipleship fosters healing that touches the whole person—not just behavior change.🤝 The importance of authentic community in church for overcoming loneliness and isolation.🔥 Training in “non-weird” prayer ministry unlocks healing and evangelism accessible to reserved church cultures.🌿 Encounter Life cohorts support ongoing healing and relational growth beyond weekend events.💬 Authentic vulnerability and confession in community radically transform church culture and individual healing.🌍 Healing prayer ministry serves as a natural bridge between meeting practical needs and sharing the gospel. Key Insights 🙌 Ministry is hard and often isolating, but shared community and honest confession offer needed relief: Pastor Shea candidly discusses the loneliness and stress common among pastors, emphasizing the value of trusted peer groups and prayer teams for mutual support and resilience. This counters the damaging expectation that pastors must always “have it together,” highlighting the importance of vulnerability.✨ Encounter Culture offers a fresh model of discipleship centered on experiential healing rather than solely informational teaching: Traditional discipleship often relies on knowledge acquisition, but ECMC prioritizes encounters with God’s love that heal deep wounds—physical, emotional, and spiritual—enabling transformation rather than mere behavior modification. This approach better addresses the root causes of struggle and sin in people’s lives.🔄 Prayer ministry training grounded in relational authenticity and practical technique eases fears of ‘weirdness’ in more reserved church cultures: Many evangelical and conservative congregations worry about charismatic expression disrupting order or alienating attendees. ECMC’s “non-weird” prayer training provides safe, reproducible practices for prayer ministry that empower laypeople to minister healing in ways respectful of their cultural context.💞 Church culture that invites honesty about sin and brokenness profoundly shifts congregational health: By modeling confession and mutual intercession, churches dismantle the damaging “sin management” mentality that leads to shame and isolation. Instead, a culture of grace strengthens the body as a whole and demonstrates the power of Jesus to heal ongoing struggles transparently.🌱 Ongoing ministry through groups like Encounter Life sustains growth and deepens community beyond weekend experiences: The 12-week cohorts create safe spaces where people can progress through healing at a realistic pace, holding one another accountable with emotional, spiritual, and relational support—essential for lasting change.👣 Healing prayer ministry naturally connects evangelism ...
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    1 hr
  • Episode 9: Reemergence of the Gnostic Heresy: Physical Healing, Sex, and Gender

    Episode 9: Reemergence of the Gnostic Heresy: Physical Healing, Sex, and Gender
    May 19 2025
    Summary In today's episode of “Between Heaven and Earth,” hosted by Justin and Amy, they explore the crucial yet challenging subject of physical healing within Christian faith, especially as practiced and understood in Western evangelical contexts. The hosts aim to provide listeners with a deeper vision of physical healing, moving beyond mere theoretical acceptance to functional, faith-driven practice that aligns with Jesus’ example. The discussion emphasizes that physical healing was a priority in Jesus’ life and ministry, and thus it should be for believers today. However, many Christians struggle to fully embrace supernatural healing due to intellectualism, theological misunderstandings, and cultural influences like Gnosticism—a worldview that devalues the material and physical in favor of the spiritual, often leading to complex issues around gender and the body. The podcast critiques the prevalent Western Christian tendency to emphasize intellectual knowledge over experiential obedience and faith, which can hinder the practice of healing ministries. It also challenges cessationist views that suggest miraculous gifts, including healing, are no longer necessary in the present age, pointing out the ongoing presence of sickness and suffering as evidence to the contrary. An important theological underpinning for healing is the incarnation of Jesus Christ, whose physical resurrection affirms the intrinsic goodness and eternal significance of the human body and physical matter. The hosts also address Gnosticism's pervasive cultural and church influence, linking it to contemporary debates on gender and sexuality, specifically how separating “gender” from “sex” has led to confusion, brokenness, and an erosion of biblical anthropology. They argue for a balanced worldview that embraces the physical body as good and meaningful rather than evil or merely a prison for the spirit. Practical steps toward healing include renouncing lies about the body, forgiving oneself and others for past hurts, and actively engaging in prayer and community support. The episode closes with encouragement to embrace a holistic, embodied Christian spirituality that brings heaven and earth together through faith in God’s healing power. Highlights ✨ Healing is a priority for Jesus and should be for His followers too.🧠 Western Christianity often emphasizes intellect over obedient, faith-filled action.🔥 Physical healing requires more than theoretical belief—it demands experiential faith.💔 Gnosticism, which devalues the physical, deeply influences both culture and church, especially around gender and sexuality.💪 True healing starts with renouncing lies about the body and embracing God’s goodness in matter.🙏 Healing involves practical faith steps: forgiveness, prayer, community, and openness to the Spirit.🌟 Jesus’ incarnation and resurrection affirm the eternal value of the physical body and matter. Key Insights ✝️ Jesus’ Example Validates Physical Healing as Kingdom Priority: The podcast highlights how Jesus’ life and ministry, heavily marked by physical healing and deliverance, showcase God’s intention for healing as central to the kingdom. If healing mattered to Jesus, it must matter to His followers, as obedience to God means living like Jesus did. This underscores a practical, embodied faith rather than a detached intellectual assent. Many Christians intellectually affirm healing but fail to engage it functionally in the church or personal prayer life. 🧠 Intellectualism as a Barrier to Healing Faith: Western evangelicalism’s strong emphasis on theology, doctrine, and rational study often leads to “theoretical charismaticism,” where believers hold to charismatic doctrines but do not actively practice healing or supernatural gifts. This intellectual dominance fosters paralysis in obedience, where knowledge replaces action and interaction with God’s power. The hosts call for a balance that nurtures both sound theology and courageous faith-in-action. 💔 Gnosticism’s Ongoing Influence Shapes Negative Views of the Body: Gnosticism, a heresy rooted in Platonic dualism, separates spirit and matter, elevating the spiritual as “more real” and disparaging the physical as evil or meaningless. The podcast traces how this worldview infiltrates modern church culture, contributing to confusion over gender and sexuality, particularly the division between “gender” (internal, spiritual) and “sex” (physical body). This theological error fuels cultural issues such as transgender ideology and other distortions and diminishes the biblical affirmation of creation’s goodness. 🙌 Incarnation as the Ultimate Affirmation of Matter’s Goodness: Jesus’ historic incarnation—born fully human and bodily resurrected—definitively affirms that God cares deeply about physical matter and the body. Jesus’ resurrection body and promised resurrection for believers ...
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    58 mins
  • Episode 8: The Longest Distance: Bridging the Gap Between Head and Heart

    Episode 8: The Longest Distance: Bridging the Gap Between Head and Heart
    May 12 2025
    Summary

    In this episode of “Between Heaven and Earth,” hosts Justin and Amy Howard dive deep into the theme of healing the disconnect often experienced between intellectual beliefs and emotional truth—specifically, between one’s head and heart. The discussion centers on the premise that followers of Jesus may often know theological truths but struggle to embody those truths emotionally. Justin and Amy interactively explore this disconnect and frame it as the “head-heart difference,” using personal anecdotes and theological insights. They emphasize the importance of recognizing blocks that hinder spiritual emotional growth and healing, including bad information (misconceptions about God), traumatic experiences that have not been processed, and mal-formed emotional connections. The episode aims to empower listeners to embrace their healing journey, invite God into their emotional struggles, and potentially facilitate healing not only for themselves but also for others. Inviting Jesus, or the concept of love, into painful memories is vital for healing. This approach helps to create a deep emotional bond that acknowledges one’s suffering while offering profound healing.

    Call to action: Listeners are invited to engage their stories, seek healing counsel, coaching, or spiritual direction through OneLife Group, and participate in upcoming Encounter Culture events designed to support their spiritual and emotional growth.
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    1 hr
  • Episode 7: Can Christians be Demonized?

    Episode 7: Can Christians be Demonized?
    May 5 2025
    Summary

    In today's episode of “Between Heaven and Earth,” we delve into the debate of oppression vs. possession. Key questions raise the issue of whether Christians can be afflicted by demons, exploring biblical theology and the early church’s views on deliverance. Justin and Amy draw upon personal experiences and scriptural references to argue that while believers are secure in Christ, they are still susceptible to spiritual influences and must actively engage in spiritual disciplines for healing and renewal. The episode promotes a vision of empowering individuals within communities to participate in God’s mission of restoration and healing, emphasizing the need for ongoing discipleship that includes healing and deliverance.

    Key Insights
    • 📚 Listeners are directed toward foundational resources for learning about deliverance, such as Neal Lozano’s book “Unbound.”

    • 🗝️ Affliction in Faith: It is argued that although Christians are protected in their relationship with Jesus, they can still experience spiritual affliction similar to how they can sin or encounter physical illness. This understanding is essential for approaching healing in a Christian context, focusing on the reality of ongoing spiritual warfare even among believers.

    • 🤔 Biblical Misinterpretation: Many biblical passages are often cited to support the belief that Christians cannot be demonized. The hosts invite listeners to consider that the context of these scriptures may not outright dismiss the possibility of demonic interaction but rather provide a call to vigilance and active engagement in spiritual disciplines.

    • 🏛️ Historical Context of Deliverance: The podcast draws attention to the practices of the early church regarding deliverance, revealing a time when new converts underwent thorough preparation for baptism, including exorcisms and teaching on the kingdom, emphasizing the ongoing need for deliverance.

    • ⚖️ Possession vs. Oppression: Justin and Amy explore the idea that the terms “possession” and “oppression” may not fully encapsulate the spiritual realities faced by believers. They suggest there’s a spectrum of influence, where individuals may experience varying degrees of demonic influence that affect their spiritual agency and decision-making.

    • 🌍 Valuing Community in Healing: The hosts stress the importance of community in the healing process, not only for accountability but also as a means to love and be loved. They emphasize that true discipleship and healing can’t be achieved in isolation, echoing the biblical call for the body of Christ to coalesce around one another to share in the Divine Life.

    • 💼 Curating Discipleship Models: There’s a critique of modern discipleship models that often overlook the importance of addressing demonic influence and healing in the life of a believer. Instead of solely focusing on theological understanding, the podcast advocates for equipping believers to engage meaningfully in the practice of deliverance as part of their journey of sanctification.

    • 🧠 The Necessity of Therapy and Deliverance: The conversation acknowledges that trauma and emotional wounds often intertwine with demonic influence. This highlights the necessity of integrating spiritual healing practices that address both psychological and spiritual aspects, validating a holistic approach to healing.
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    1 hr and 7 mins