In this episode of Up+Adam, Adam sits down with ACLU president and NYU law professor Deborah Archer, who makes a bold claim in her new book Dividing Lines: America’s transportation system hasn’t just failed us—it was designed to divide us.

This conversation doesn’t shy away from the big questions: In a time where everything is being called racist, is labeling roads helpful, or harmful? Do you think there’s a point where everything being framed as racial ends up diluting the very meaning of racism? At what point does a road… just become a road again? Has the ACLU stayed true to its mission of defending all Americans’ rights, even the unpopular ones? It’s a thoughtful, provocative exchange, and a must-listen for anyone trying to understand if inequality is paved in plain sight.

Learn more:

Book: Dividing Lines by Deborah Archer

Website: ACLU.org

Instagram: @aclu_nationwide

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