In this insightful episode of 3LoD Unlocked, host Ghassan Zeidan sits down with Linda Tuck Chapman, CEO of the Third Party Risk Institute and a leading voice in third party risk management (TPRM). Linda brings decades of experience to the conversation, sharing essential strategies, common pitfalls, and actionable insights to help organizations manage their third party risks effectively. The discussion covers critical components of robust TPRM frameworks, practical approaches to vendor segmentation, the nuances of fourth-party risk management, and real-world scenarios demonstrating the importance of proactive risk management.

Key Highlights & Timestamps:

• [00:35] – Introduction to Linda Tuck Chapman, her background, and the importance of third-party risk management.
• [02:05] – Defining third-party risk management and its increasing importance in the modern enterprise.
• [05:30] – Clarifying the scope of third-party relationships beyond vendors.
• [09:40] – The power of segmentation in managing third-party relationships and risks effectively.
• [17:20] – Common challenges and critical mistakes organizations make in their third-party risk management programs.
• [26:15] – Discussing the importance of clear risk reporting and practical KRIs (Key Risk Indicators).
• [32:45] – Real-world examples of impactful risk incidents, highlighting lessons learned.
• [40:05] – Deep dive into managing fourth-party risks, practical guidance, and best practices.
• [45:25] – How to evaluate and enhance your organization's TPRM capabilities.
• [48:00] – Where listeners can connect with Linda and explore further resources.

Notable Quotes:

• "Your company is actually the smallest part of the equation when considering your third-party relationships."
• "If everything is risky, nothing matters. Proper segmentation is key to effective third-party risk management."
• "We’re not risk police—we’re enablers of risk-informed decisions."

Conclusion: This conversation underscores the necessity for businesses to evolve their approach to third-party risk management from reactive to proactive. Effective TPRM not only safeguards an organization but also enhances its operational resilience and competitive advantage. Linda's insights emphasize clear segmentation, actionable reporting, and the strategic alignment of TPRM practices with broader enterprise risk management efforts. Listeners are encouraged to leverage these best practices to elevate their third-party risk management capabilities.

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Episode Summary:

In this insightful episode of 3LoD Unlocked, I sit down with Abdullah Al Ghamdi, an expert in governance to discuss the critical role boards and other governance forums play in shaping effective governance frameworks. We explore key responsibilities, risk oversight, regulatory challenges, and best practices that every board member should know. Tune in to gain actionable insights on how boards can enhance culture, improve accountability and drive strategic initiatives.

Timestamps:

[02:15] - Understanding the Board’s Role in Governance
[06:30] - Risk Oversight: What Boards Must Prioritize
[12:45] - Compliance Challenges in Today’s Regulatory Landscape
[18:20] - Best Practices for Board Members
[24:50] - The Future of GRC and Digital Transformation

Quotes to Remember:

• "Governance isn’t just about policies—it’s about setting the right tone from the top."
• "Boards that integrate risk oversight into strategy are the ones that drive sustainable success."
• "Regulations will keep evolving, but a strong governance foundation ensures adaptability and resilience."

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📧 For enquiries or to suggest topics, contact Ghassan Zeidan

In this episode of 3LoD Unlocked, Ghassan Zeidan welcomes Kyle McMullen, a seasoned audit expert with over 25 years of experience in internal audit, financial crime, and compliance. Kyle shares his journey from Deloitte to senior roles at Goldman Sachs and Citi, and discusses the evolution of third line functions in areas like financial crime and governance. He offers insights into the changing role of internal audit, the importance of specialization, and future trends in a data-driven environment. Kyle also introduces The Audit Hub, a platform designed to connect and support audit professionals through resources and networking opportunities.

Whether you’re an aspiring auditor, GRC professional, or industry veteran, this episode offers valuable insights on career development, audit innovation, and emerging trends.

Timestamps
• 00:00 – Introduction to Kyle McMullen
• 03:12 – The Role of Internal Audit in Financial Crime
• 06:11 – Evolving Expectations from Internal Audit
• 08:20 – Specialists vs. Generalists: Which Path to Take?
• 12:54 – AI and the Future of Internal Audit
• 14:45 – Growth of GRC in the Middle East
• 17:45 – The Audit Hub: A New Platform for Auditors
• 20:00 – Wrap-up and Where to Connect with Kyle


Quotes to Remember
• “The best learning curve you’ll ever have is through firsthand experience—try everything at the start of your career and specialize later.”
• “Regulators are expecting third-line auditors to lead in remediation efforts—ensuring sustainable control environments are in place.”
• “AI won’t replace auditors, but it will transform how we work—enabling deeper insights and better testing of controls.”


Conclusion
This episode offers an in-depth look at the evolution of internal audit and the role of financial crime compliance in today’s fast-changing landscape. With expert advice on career paths, specialization, and emerging trends, Kyle McMullen provides actionable insights to enhance audit careers. As the GRC landscape evolves, platforms like The Audit Hub will play a crucial role in supporting professionals across industries.

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📧 For enquiries or to suggest topics, contact Ghassan Zeidan

In this episode of 3LoD Unlocked, host Ghassan Zeidan is joined by Shawki Khawash, a leading expert in financial crime compliance with over 20 years of experience. Shawki brings deep insights into cross-border payments, correspondent banking, KYC, trade finance, sanctions, and AML/CFT (Anti-Money Laundering and Countering the Financing of Terrorism). Having served as an MLRO and Head of Sanctions in the Lebanese banking sector for a decade, Shawki now focuses on training and consulting, working with institutions across the globe, including PwC’s Academy and ACAMS in the Middle East.

Shawki and Ghassan discuss the shifting landscape of financial crime compliance, the impact of global sanctions, and how geopolitical events shape financial regulation. Shawki explains the importance of staying ahead of financial crime risks by going beyond surface-level compliance and embracing ethical standards. He also shares practical career advice for compliance professionals, emphasizing emotional intelligence, creativity, and continuous learning as critical skills for the field.

If you want to understand how financial crime compliance is evolving or are looking to advance your career in the GRC space, this episode offers essential insights.

Timestamps
• [0:00] – Introduction to Shawki Khawash and Overview of His Career
• [3:04] – Regulatory Compliance vs. Financial Crime Compliance
• [7:55] – Impact of Geopolitics on Sanctions and Financial Crime
• [10:07] – Expansion of Predicate Offenses and New Criminal Risks
• [13:18] – UAE’s Removal from the FATF Gray List: Lessons Learned
• [17:04] – Importance of Certifications, Training, and Continuous Learning
• [22:10] – Key Skills for Compliance Professionals: EQ, Creativity, and Stress Management
• [27:26] – Ethics in Compliance and the Role of ESG

Quotes to Remember
• “Financial crime compliance is about going beyond rules—it’s about understanding the risks behind the transactions.”
• “Compliance professionals must embrace continuous learning—there’s always something new to understand in this evolving field.”
• “Emotional intelligence and creativity are just as important as technical knowledge in compliance roles.”
• “The UAE turned gray listing into an opportunity for improvement—showing resilience and commitment to global standards.”

Conclusion
This episode offers a deep dive into the world of financial crime compliance, with Shawki Khawash providing expert insights on regulatory trends, sanctions, and career development. Shawki emphasizes the importance of going beyond surface-level compliance by focusing on ethics, continuous learning, and emotional intelligence. Whether you’re new to the field or an experienced professional, this conversation provides valuable takeaways on building a successful career in the evolving GRC space.

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🎧 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite platform
📧 For enquiries or to suggest topics, contact Ghassan Zeidan

In this episode of 3LoD Unlocked, host Ghassan Zeidan is joined by Oscar Oriana Haider, co-founder of Cordell Partners, a boutique headhunting firm in the Middle East. Oscar brings years of recruitment experience, having worked with FTSE 100 companies in London and leading financial services firms in the region. The conversation dives into recruitment challenges in the Middle East, the growth of GRC (Governance, Risk, and Compliance), the role of ADGM and DIFC in attracting talent, and practical career advice for professionals seeking roles in the region.

Oscar shares insights on the evolving recruitment landscape, differences between Abu Dhabi and Dubai, and the increasing role of risk and compliance functions. He also provides guidance for candidates looking to enter the Middle East job market, emphasizing the importance of commitment to the region and cultural adaptability.

Whether you’re a job-seeker considering a move to the Gulf or a professional curious about market trends in GRC and recruitment, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways.

Timestamps
• [0:00] – Introduction to Oscar Oriana Haider
• [1:13] – Overview of Cordell Partners and GRC Recruitment Trends
• [2:16] – ADGM vs DIFC: Comparing Growth and Opportunities
• [6:12] – Recruitment Challenges: Authorized Individuals and Regulatory Requirements
• [8:20] – Risk vs Compliance: Salary Differences and Market Trends
• [13:18] – Impact of the UAE Exiting the FATF Gray List
• [15:46] – Advice for Job Seekers: How to Approach the Middle East Market
• [21:00] – The Importance of Workplace Culture in Employee Retention
• [25:04] – Where to Connect with Oscar and Final Thoughts

Quotes to Remember
• “ADGM’s growth has been faster than the DIFC’s in its early years—it’s impressive what they’ve achieved.”
• “Compliance is still the biggest area of hiring, but risk is catching up, especially with fintechs entering the market.”
• “Persistence is key—if you want a job in the Middle East, show commitment, network, and keep coming back.”
• “Cultural adaptability is essential — business here is based on relationships and trust.”

Conclusion
In this insightful episode, Oscar Oriana Haider offers a deep dive into recruitment trends, challenges, and opportunities in the Middle East. He sheds light on the growing importance of GRC roles, the dynamic between ADGM and DIFC, and the evolving workplace culture in the UAE. With practical advice for job seekers and a unique perspective on market trends, this conversation is a must-listen for anyone navigating the Gulf job market.

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📧 For enquiries or to suggest topics, contact Ghassan Zeidan

In this episode of 3LoD Unlocked, Ghassan Zeidan welcomes Tomell deSilva Ceasar, a seasoned GRC professional with nearly two decades of experience across public and private sectors. Tomell has held leadership roles at companies such as Total, Emirates National Oil Company, and Careem. He is the co-founder of the Middle East and Africa Compliance Association (MIACA) and founder of Caliber Advisory. Tomell’s articles on ethics and compliance have been featured in Forbes, and he is currently working on a book addressing systemic corruption and governance challenges.

Tomell shares his journey of self-discovery within the GRC space, explaining how he found a deeper purpose in his work. He emphasizes the importance of asking “Why?” and discusses how GRC professionals play a vital role in shaping an ethical corporate world and fostering global stability. The conversation also touches on the challenges of working across different industries and jurisdictions, the evolution of compliance in the Middle East, and Saudi Arabia’s Vision 2030.

This episode offers valuable insights for GRC professionals, compliance officers, and those looking to build purpose-driven careers in governance and ethics.

Timestamps
•[0:00] – Introduction to Tomell deSilva Ceasar
•[3:01] – The Global State of Poverty and Corruption
•[5:26] – GRC as a Force for Good: Shaping Ethical Business Practices
•[7:12] – Writing a Book on Corruption and Governance
•[12:04] – GRC Across Sectors: Industry-Specific Challenges
•[17:04] – GRC Growth in Saudi Arabia and Vision 2030
•[22:31] – Founding MIACA: Empowering Compliance Professionals
•[25:01] – Launching Caliber Advisory: Supporting Companies on Their GRC Journey
•[28:00] – Final Thoughts and Where to Connect with Tomell

Quotes to Remember
•“GRC professionals are the ethical compass of the corporate world.”
•“Understanding the ‘why’ behind your work is essential to staying motivated and making a difference.”
•“Breaking down silos between industries is key to solving systemic challenges.”
•“Compliance without ethics is just a checkbox exercise.”

Conclusion
This episode offers an inspiring look into the deeper purpose of governance, risk, and compliance, with Tomell deSilva Ceasar sharing his journey toward finding meaning in GRC. From tackling corruption to navigating industry challenges, Tomell emphasizes the importance of ethics and continuous learning. With insights into the evolving GRC landscape in Saudi Arabia and the broader Middle East, this conversation is packed with practical advice and thoughtful reflections for GRC professionals and leaders.

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📧 For enquiries or to suggest topics, contact Ghassan Zeidan

Welcome to the inaugural episode of 3LoD Unlocked! In this solo episode, host Ghassan Zeidan lays the groundwork for what promises to be an insightful and thought-provoking podcast series. With over 20 years of experience in the Governance, Risk, and Compliance (GRC) space, Ghassan introduces the Three Lines of Defense (3LoD) model, its evolution, and its growing importance in today’s risk-conscious organizations.

Ghassan shares his personal journey in the financial services and banking sectors, reflecting on the challenges of siloed operations, the value of integrated assurance, and how the 3LOD model provides accountability and structure. He also addresses criticisms of the model, highlights opportunities for improvement, and explains why the name “Three Lines of Defense” continues to resonate within the industry.

Whether you’re a seasoned professional, a newcomer curious about GRC, or someone looking to gain a better understanding of risk management frameworks, this episode sets the stage for exciting future discussions and expert interviews.

Timestamps
•[0:00] – Introduction to the Podcast and Host
•[2:16] – What is the Three Lines of Defense (3 LoD) Model?
•[4:00] – Common Challenges with the 3LoD Model
•[6:10] – Roles and Responsibilities Across the Three Lines
•[6:56] – Integrated Assurance and Technology Trends
•[7:36] – The Board’s Role in the 3LoD Model
•[8:17] – Why the 3LoD Name Still Matters
•[8:44] – The Format of Future Episodes
•[9:26] – Call to Action: Your Feedback Matters

Quotes to Remember
•“Risk is the price of innovation. Without risk, there is no reward.”
•“The 3LoD model provides a baseline, but collaboration is what truly makes it effective.”
•“The name ‘Three Lines of Defense’ isn’t the issue—it’s how you interpret and apply it that matters.”
•“This podcast is about building a stronger, more connected community in GRC.”

Conclusion

In this kickoff episode of 3LoD Unlocked, Ghassan Zeidan offers an insightful introduction to the Three Lines of Defense model, its challenges, and its evolving relevance in the GRC space. Whether you’re a risk management veteran or exploring these concepts for the first time, this episode provides a solid foundation and a sneak peek into the future of the podcast.

Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share this podcast with colleagues who are passionate about governance, risk, and compliance. Stay tuned for upcoming episodes where we’ll dive deeper into methodologies, emerging trends, and inspiring career stories.

Don’t forget to unlock the silos—join us on this journey!

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📌 Follow 3LoD Unlocked on LinkedIn
🎧 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite platform
📧 For enquiries or to suggest topics, contact Ghassan Zeidan